Cusco vs Stance (Rear Control Arms)

[MACCAA]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

What insurance implication are those?

Pretty much anything other than very minor modifications has to be engineered.
I'd say replacing a major part of the rear suspension would fall in to this category.
Failure of a component like this could have fairly major ramifications.
In the event of this occuring,any insurance compay would have a really good escape clause.
Cheers
Len

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by MACCAA

Pretty much anything other than very minor modifications has to be engineered.
I'd say replacing a major part of the rear suspension would fall in to this category.

Yep, understood.
(The local engineering dude is on a good thing. When he engineered my brakes he spent about 3/4 hour inspecting and driving my vehicle with sensor on board. Thank you very much, that will be $770.)

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by OmarGC

Materials...

I'm sorry, I don't think "materials" wins the vote. Steel plate, if correctly designed, is more than up to the task. Also, as I mentioned, the Hancha LCA use an inboard adjuster. This means when you adjust the camber you alter the toe as well.
I am not disputing the quality/integrity of the Hancha units.

[Funky Fresh]

Wow I'm confused more than ever! lol

[Captain Snooze]

From what I have read inboard adjusters can be a pain to adjust. Also fiddly because you (or more likely the steering shop) adjusts the camber then corrects the toe the corrects the camber again. So it can be a little time consuming to get it spot on BUT once you have the geo set to your liking it's not like you will be playing around with it much so the benefits of outboard adjusters is likely only to be an advantage in the beginning.

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

From what I have read inboard adjusters can be a pain to adjust. Also fiddly because you (or more likely the steering shop) adjusts the camber then corrects the toe the corrects the camber again. So it can be a little time consuming to get it spot on BUT once you have the geo set to your liking it's not like you will be playing around with it much so the benefits of outboard adjusters is likely only to be an advantage in the beginning.

Yeah I'm only wanting to (have the shop) adjust them once (then every other scheduled alignment). So I'm not too worried on where the adjusters are.

Good point

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by Hancha Group

For the OP, to answer your original question, I'd take the Stance arm over the Cusco.
Pros: It's lighter, stiffer laterally, cheaper, offers better suspension travel.
Cons: PITA to adjust (but both have this problem so it's a toss up), softer in bending.

Wow thinks for all that info!!!

You have now got me interested in your product.

Do you have a web page on the product where I can read more about it? and do you have photos of the actual product?

The main thing I want is to be able to adjust the camber. But if I'm going to upgrade the Control Arm I don't want to have to upgrade it again when I start hitting the track.

If your product can offer all of that, then you have got me interested.

You also mentioned that the Stance would be better than the Cusco. But how would the Stance compare to your product?

[Huehuecoyotl]

I went with the racerx 4130 steel LCA myself that are overbuilt and hella functional rather than something aimed at the hell-flush crowd,like stance, it all depends on your application, usage and intent

I am to old to fall for pretty annodized colors, and married to a doctor, I cant take the liability of shoddy parts, stuff failing and us getting sued, nor is this a good part to use a softer metal or save weight. the benefit of replacement is adjustment for the purpose of dialing in camber for more grip
there is no benefit to spending more on this part than needed, while I like Hancha design, their pricepoint is north of $500, and I cant justify the extra cost from an engineering standpoint

If you application is a hellaflush build you can use whatever u want it wont matter anyways, right?

Doctors get sued enough frivolously
its a suspension part that bears great load if you track your car, so keep this in mind when electing to replace OE which is steel

Liability wise, you can see what I like in my signature below

I had the option to work with Stance and 'represent them' in my sig line, and really didnt consider the cusco or the stance product, for my set it and forget it type of component selection intended for track use. Likely if it wont fail for me on the track, it wont fail on the streets either.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Hancha Group

I have never seen a Cusco arm in person, but they are steel and I'm almost positive they are heavier than the Stance ones. I believe the Stance arms weigh in around 4-4.5 lbs. Stance uses Aurora bearings, which are some of the best in the business.

My comment about the rose joint was the lack of dust boot on the Stance arms. I would prefer to see one on a daily driven car.

Not all of us live in areas where salt isn't present.

Yes I am familiar with Aurora joints, in fact we use them for trailing arms however we go for larger shanks than the actual joint hole diameter. It doesn't hurt to over-engineer stuff, and no end of simulation is going to tell you everything that will happen, like in the case of a crash.

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

I went with the racerx 4130 steel LCA myself that are overbuilt and hella functional rather than something aimed at the hell-flush crowd,like stance, it all depends on your application, usage and intent

I am to old to fall for pretty annodized colors, and married to a doctor, I cant take the liability of shoddy parts, stuff failing and us getting sued, nor is this a good part to use a softer metal or save weight. the benefit of replacement is adjustment for the purpose of dialing in camber for more grip
there is no benefit to spending more on this part than needed, while I like Hancha design, their pricepoint is north of $500, and I cant justify the extra cost from an engineering standpoint

If you application is a hellaflush build you can use whatever u want it wont matter anyways, right?

Doctors get sued enough frivolously
its a suspension part that bears great load if you track your car, so keep this in mind when electing to replace OE which is steel

Liability wise, you can see what I like in my signature below

I had the option to work with Stance and 'represent them' in my sig line, and really didnt consider the cusco or the stance product, for my set it and forget it type of component selection intended for track use. Likely if it wont fail for me on the track, it wont fail on the streets either.

Are these the once? http://www.racerxfabrication.com/pag...art/index.html

If so they look pretty good to me. I'll have to read up on them more.

[Hancha Group]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

My comment about the rose joint was the lack of dust boot on the Stance arms. I would prefer to see one on a daily driven car.

Not all of us live in areas where salt isn't present.

Yes I am familiar with Aurora joints, in fact we use them for trailing arms however we go for larger shanks than the actual joint hole diameter. It doesn't hurt to over-engineer stuff, and no end of simulation is going to tell you everything that will happen, like in the case of a crash.

Understood. We're from Midwestern America where there's salt sometimes from November to April. Dust seals and dust boots can be bought fairly easily though if it does bother you. We offer it as an option, but since it adds to the price, we recommend the end user buy it only if they feel strongly compelled. It is meant to keep out dust, not salt. If the boot binds in the bearing, it will eventually tear and if salt water gets trapped in the boot, it only makes the rust problem worse.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by Funky Fresh

Are these the once? http://www.racerxfabrication.com/pag...art/index.html

If so they look pretty good to me. I'll have to read up on them more.

yes, those are the ones, if color matters, they can do that too for that blingy look. Price point seemed reasonable too, and they have a suite of parts for the car, not just a few, and all are overbuilt, the rear UCA looks great too

so......I dont think the boots are that relevant, I prefer to not have them

my truck sees muck and only muck , salt snow and sand year round for over 6 hears on the same heims, etc My truck 'grew up' being used for trips to NJ,PA, VT and Maine, so I know salt and snow too

Dont over think it, just use the best stuff, dont be cost driven on this part
Its the cheaper, under built, under spec'd solutions you need to watch for, I dont like trying to save weight on weight bearing stuff, I like a solid sway bar, steel linkages etc.

I rather aim at over built, unless youre trying to do a F1 formula build and have the means to that budget, I stay with brute over bold, thats is my philosophy here
stance or cusco? I like the cusco better

so youre following a contractors pickup truck
a 4"x4" post falls off the back of the truck and you dont have time to react
your clearance is 3.9"
it slides under you aimed at you like a stationary torpedo
gouging each and every surface at 80mph

I dont care what the simulator says, I want steel in my life at that moment over alum, some of that is just a peace of mind thing for me-which materials fatigue level is higher after the 2 years of track you been doing?What is fatigue? and just what am I doing to the thing as I hit the rumble strips on each and every turn at the track, over and over and over, or here, where highway is all washboard from heat? how does each react to catastrophic forces, when driven to fail? which absorbs more energy?

Steel's tendency to bend before it deforms to breakage is usually greater than aluminum's ability to bend, before it breaks, thats pretty empirical, when compare like thicknesses, both in ideal grades for the given application

aluminum is a easy metal to cnc, and sell vs crafting the same part with steel, its nice that its also very easy to overbuild, so there is merit to alum parts, for sure, I like the stuff hnacha posts about alot, great logic driven stuff it seems,
when I compare overbuilt alum to over built steel, steel wins for me tho

[Hancha Group]

It's not about us.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

when I compare overbuilt alum to over built steel, steel wins for me tho

Come on man I Know you know better than that...

Aluminum is an Element, and is almost never used un-alloyed,

Steel is a name used to describe Alloys with an Iron base material, hardly seems a fair comparison...

I could show you "steel" with horrible FTY and FTU numbers and some very trick "aluminum" with outstanding FTY and FTU numbers, It's all in the alloy, Motorsports seems to get obsessed with some of the more common alloys due to cost, customer familiarity, and availability. But there are catalogs full of materials that fall into the general catagories of "steel" and "aluminum"

Hancha is doing some pretty smart design work allowing the engineering behind these materials to let him take his designs to another level. Something very common in Aerospace, glad to see it getting brought to the street...yo!