Why I’m Glad the 86 Came With No Turbo Trim: Still a Better Love Story Than Twilight

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by airjonny

There is a valid point to be made tho: If people are willing to drop 5k more for a RS with paint and TRD goodies, why wouldn't people do the same for a turbo? There are alot of smart people at Toyobaru. You mean to tell me they can't shoehorn that WRX engine in there? How much R&D is needed to do that?

Dude did you read all the posts here?
If not check out mine at 66!
The tech part is probably pretty easy it is all the other crap they have to go through to get the car approved.
And I bet you are looking at more like $8-10K because it is more than just adding a turbo that would be needed.

[airjonny]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Dude did you read all the posts here?
If not check out mine at 66!
The tech part is probably pretty easy it is all the other crap they have to go through to get the car approved.
And I bet you are looking at more like $8-10K because it is more than just adding a turbo that would be needed.

Ok I'll go with 8-10k. I think there would be a market for that. Even as a limited run thing, I think they could make bank off of that.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by airjonny

Ok I'll go with 8-10k. I think there would be a market for that. Even as a limited run thing, I think they could make bank off of that.

They would probably be happy to break even on the FI as long as the overall car margin stays the same.
Not sure you will see anything soon though as they have 100s of hoops to jump through to make such a change.
To us it may look like they just have to build and sell it but believe me it ain't that easy.
Then there are all the other factors such as market share, competition with their current models, etc., etc. that are already mentioned above for them to consider. They will not do it just to please people and as easy as it is for us to sit back and say "why not" we are not privy to their business plan.
But... at this point we are just rehashing what has already been said a dozen times on this thread and 1000 times on others, so anybody that wants FI will just have to gather their pennies and go after market for a while longer (or maybe forever).

[airjonny]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They would probably be happy to break even on the FI as long as the overall car margin stays the same.
Not sure you will see anything soon though as they have 100s of hoops to jump through to make such a change.
To us it may look like they just have to build and sell it but believe me it ain't that easy.
Then there are all the other factors such as market share, competition with their current models, etc., etc. that are already mentioned above for them to consider. They will not do it just to please people and as easy as it is for us to sit back and say "why not" we are not privy to their business plan.
But... at this point we are just rehashing what has already been said a dozen times on this thread and 1000 times on others, so anybody that wants FI will just have to gather their pennies and go after market for a while longer (or maybe forever).

Competition within a car company isn't much of a problem if the car is a limited year run (see 1 series M). But even then, Scion doesn't have the problem that Subaru has with the STI. If they can make/lose the same amount of money it takes to come out with the RS, I can't see why someone at Scion can't make a good business case for it.

[Quentin]

I'd love to share the cost that goes with just adding a one variation to a manufacturing line. (That isn't even looking at the other logistics... Just adding the means to build the new variation.) I can't because I'd lose my job, but most of you would shit a brick if you saw the number for just the manufacturing. When I did my first feasibility study, it changed my whole way of thinking about why automakers offer what they do.

In regard to the RS1.0, almost all of the parts were added at the port. The push button start and seats were likely the only parts added at the actual factory -- the push button start is already added to different models like the BRZ Limited and 86 GTS and the seats are probably the same deal... I can't say for certain on the seats because I haven't gotten a good look at them nor do I know what is available in other markets. The cars arrived to the port naked (they even had yellow fender garnishes with the 86 badge that were replaced with the TRD ones at port). The aero, exhaust, and lowering springs were all port installed. That is why they can do a short run of special edition cars that are effectively appearance packages. A turbo engine would have to be done at the factory and would incur all of those costs that I talk about above.

[UltramarineLuck]

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/12/s...t-la-official/

This adds an interesting dimension to the landscape, too.

[Jyn]

Originally Posted by Quentin

I'd love to share the cost that goes with just adding a one variation to a manufacturing line. (That isn't even looking at the other logistics... Just adding the means to build the new variation.) I can't because I'd lose my job, but most of you would shit a brick if you saw the number for just the manufacturing. When I did my first feasibility study, it changed my whole way of thinking about why automakers offer what they do.

In regard to the RS1.0, almost all of the parts were added at the port. The push button start and seats were likely the only parts added at the actual factory -- the push button start is already added to different models like the BRZ Limited and 86 GTS and the seats are probably the same deal... I can't say for certain on the seats because I haven't gotten a good look at them nor do I know what is available in other markets. The cars arrived to the port naked (they even had yellow fender garnishes with the 86 badge that were replaced with the TRD ones at port). The aero, exhaust, and lowering springs were all port installed. That is why they can do a short run of special edition cars that are effectively appearance packages. A turbo engine would have to be done at the factory and would incur all of those costs that I talk about above.

Thank you.
Everyone that wants to offer an opinion regarding the manufacturing/production-side of the argument should be mandated to have at least a basic understanding or familiarity of industrial engineering. I think that'd remove a lot of the comments, or at least offer a new discussion instead of "lol but it's not that hard to throw another subie engine in there i see it all the time lol 5-10k"

[Braces]

I would believe that most manufacturers when designing a new car would have already planned ALL of the future variants from the start. The initial platform would have been designed for possible future power upgrades, convertible, etc. etc. No company decides midway through a model cycle to add FI on a whim. Obviously the life cycle of this car has already been planned. Lots of external enhancements and possibly no power upgrades. Only Toyobaru knows for sure.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by Quentin

I'd love to share the cost that goes with just adding a one variation to a manufacturing line. (That isn't even looking at the other logistics... Just adding the means to build the new variation.) I can't because I'd lose my job, but most of you would shit a brick if you saw the number for just the manufacturing. When I did my first feasibility study, it changed my whole way of thinking about why automakers offer what they do.

In regard to the RS1.0, almost all of the parts were added at the port. The push button start and seats were likely the only parts added at the actual factory -- the push button start is already added to different models like the BRZ Limited and 86 GTS and the seats are probably the same deal... I can't say for certain on the seats because I haven't gotten a good look at them nor do I know what is available in other markets. The cars arrived to the port naked (they even had yellow fender garnishes with the 86 badge that were replaced with the TRD ones at port). The aero, exhaust, and lowering springs were all port installed. That is why they can do a short run of special edition cars that are effectively appearance packages. A turbo engine would have to be done at the factory and would incur all of those costs that I talk about above.

And to further add to your point, it would drive costs up dramatically for the consumer. It'd be easily a $35k starting price. At that point, it would be out of the reach of most people deeming it no longer affordable. Ft86 concept was to be affordable for the mass public. I don't see a turbo version ever surfacing. Maybe for a last year limited edition model created by TTE or TRD or something along that and it will be EXPENSIVE!

[Hot Lava]

There are other often ignored arguments against increased horsepower upgrades as applicable to the 86 platform. For one the car was designed with current power output in mind. The final weight, weight distribution and the use of a limited slip differential constrain any opportunity for increases in horsepower from the factory. Changing any one of these characteristics to meet safety requirements would have a negative effect on the best selling point for this platform, it's excellent handling. Ask yourself, why has Mazda not offered a higher horsepower option to the Miata?

[Tcoat]

Just went back through the whole thread and realized there are about 20 of us arguing the same point (over and over) against 3 people!
It certainly appears that those of us in the actual automotive industry all agree that we are unlikely to ever see a production FI car.
Not going to list all the hurdles yet again but we all say almost exactly the same things and give the same reasons.
But hey, what do we know, we only design/build/manage in the industry.

[Strife26]

Originally Posted by bodayguy

Agree to disagree OP. There should have been a turbo version planned for year 2 or 3 of the model. A car maker cannot sit back and let reviewers and owners complain about ONE thing over and over, yet fail to address it. That's bad for business, too, right?
I enjoy the car as is, no doubt. But I would prefer the option of buying a turbo version that has factory support and warranty.
None of us knows the business case for adding it or not adding it - we are speculating. There's already a turbo version of the engine in the WRX. Maybe it doesn't fit, but this is Toyobaru, they can figure it out if they wanted to.
I am not going to sit around and make excuses for the company. I am just a driver who wants a little more. The package is great overall.

Buy a WRX then. They are different price categories. You pay for the turbo and awd in the wrx.

[DantKR]

Originally Posted by Strife26

Buy a WRX then. They are different price categories. You pay for the turbo and awd in the wrx.

Because it's the same thing! Obviously this guy gets it. If you want a RWD 2 door with a turbo, then just get a WRX.

And the WRX and BRZ are in the same price category. Most people that want a turbo would be willing to shell out another 4-6k for a BRZ WRX/STi.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by airjonny

Ok I'll go with 8-10k. I think there would be a market for that. Even as a limited run thing, I think they could make bank off of that.

they make even less money on limited runs. It wouldn't be feasible to R&D a proper FI rig just to have it limited to the capacity to what we're seeing in their other limited releases. Aero and non-reliability parts (interior) is much easier to R&D and develop.

Originally Posted by DantKR

Because it's the same thing! Obviously this guy gets it. If you want a RWD 2 door with a turbo, then just get a WRX.

And the WRX and BRZ are in the same price category. Most people that want a turbo would be willing to shell out another 4-6k for a BRZ WRX/STi.

RWD 2 door with a turbo does not equal AWD 4 door with a turbo, but I see whatcha mean