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Old 06-10-2020, 01:16 AM   #1
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HELP Worst Mistake Ever - Recall Warranty Work/TOB Replaced at the same time.

Shortest explanation.

I have strange noises from under the hood after recall and transmission work was done at two separate shops. Please watch my attached videos and tell me if you have heard these noises before and can help.

--------------------

Longer Explanation

- TOB Failed
- Took the car to the dealer for the warranty recall work hoping they would cut me a break on labor. They refused.
- Did the recall work and towed to another shop to fix the TOB (Big Mistake - should have fixed one problem at a time).
- Transmission Shop replaced TOB, Clutch, and TOB Transmission Collar.
- The car was finally started but had raddling/sqeaking noises after warming up at idle and shifting. Both mechanics blamed each other.
- Dealer got rid of the idle noise on flat ground by bending mounting brackets that were rubbing.
- Car still makes noises after the car is warmed up during shifting, braking or at a downward slope, and makes the noise if the car is turned off as long as it is facing toward a downward slope and you shake the car.
- Car does not make noises during cold start driving. No noises above 3k rpm in any gear. No noises during reverse including while releasing the clutch or braking in reverse or reversing on a slope. No noises at idle or while reving in neutral.
- I've been to every mechanic in SoFlo that knows 86's and nobody has a clue.
- I've attached videos.
- Does anybody have any ideas based on what they hear or see?

Thanks for everyone's help!! 1st post so sorry if its in the wrong place or poorly formatted.

---------------------

VERY LONG VERSION and partially me venting to release some fustration after months of back and forth with nobody caring unless they are making money off me. Get your popcorn.

The nightmare I sought so desperately to avoid has arrived and in this nightmare you don't wake up before almost dying. You just die and then you repeat the nightmare again. Like a bad K-Pop song stuck in your head because your Korean girlfriend insists you diversify your playlists, this nightmare will never end. Unless someone in the shadowy corners of the FT86 Club forums can help, its my hope others will learn from my costly mistake.

Where the problem began:

My TOB exploded on a sunny day in South Florida for the 2nd time. It happened before and was replaced in 2016 but as those of you who are familiar with our TOB issues already know, that was before the release of SU003-07349 which replaced the old design that was plagued with problems. Fast forward back to 2020 when it explodes again. This time I was prepared (Or so I thought). I had read multiple threads and watched a few YouTube videos of people who had gone to the dealer and asked them to replace their spark plugs and coils(ignition) during the recall warranty at cost of parts alone. The plan was simple. Show up to the dealer for the warranty work and work out a deal to replace the plugs, coils, and TOB. WAIT!! What about the dealers blowing up engines doing the recall work? Covered. I found a dealer who had a Toyota tech named Naim who had done the valve spring recall on at least 5 other 86's with no returns and no issues.

THIS was the biggest MISTAKE i've ever made with any car i've ever owned. DO NOT attempt TWO big projects with TWO different shops at the same time. I should have had the TOB fixed. Drove the car for a week to make sure everything was good and then did the recall after while recording a video showing the car is fine prior to the recall work.

I thought I would pay only for the parts, drive around in a free courtesy vehicle, and would have an engine ready to drive another 100k miles. They didn't agree to swap my TOB, YES even though it was right there in front of their face, and instead gave me a very tempting offer of $5000 to replace it and a bunch of other things that in their assessment were in dire need of replacement. Don't believe the price quote? Look at the photo.

No big deal. I live within a driveable distance to KAB Customs who, as most people in SoFlo know, is supposed to be the "go to" guy for 86's. He replaced my TOB in 2016 along with the clutch and flywheel and even though I picked up the car with a dent on the hood and the clutch wouldn't go into 1st gear unless I waited 2 seconds after compressing the clutch, he was still probably my best option right? I mean, maybe the dent was a coconut that fell from the tree as it sat outside. And the delay to 1st? Kab said most likely that the after market ACT pressure plate was too heavy. Maybe I shouldn't have gone aftermarket. Now I would go back to OEM and right the errors of the past.

The car was towed from the dealer to KAB Customs with the exploded TOB barely hanging on after the warranty work was performed. It died after Kab got one last drive out of it to the lift. Because of the Corona Virus the Fork (clutch) had a delay of 2 days which meant the car would have to sit outside until it arrived. Another Problem. No parking was available outside. Every mechanic I've even gone to had parking outside including KAB's last location which I thought was the same. But it wasn't the same location and wow was he angry. How dare I take up one of his garage spots for two days because of an unexpected shipping delay emailed to me at the last minute and with no notice of limited parking. Even the tow guy was like what's his problem. I took the blame. Apologized. And now I know, bring the car with all parts ready.

KAB started the job after the parts arrived a few days later but there was another problem. When the TOB fell apart it scratched the TOB sleeve/collar and KAB recommended replacing it. Thankfully he happened to have a used transmission bearing collar (cover area included) and would swap it out at the same time. I agreed and the work was completed. I was now locked in this nightmare and going for a ride.

Problem goes Super Saiyan:

I was so happy to have my car back after weeks of rentals and courtesy vehicles that I decided to test the car on the drive home instead of at the shop. The Idle was really high after having the battery disconnected so at a high idle and at a cold start everything seemed good. ANOTHER MISTAKE. I should have test drove it there longer, allowed the rpms to settle down and for the cold start to end. I would have known there was an issue and left the car there. It likely wasn't even test driven by the shop.

As soon as the car warmed up it was very obvious there was a problem. At Idle it made a raddling noise at low rpm and while shifting it made another raddling noise similar to lifters hitting but not as loud mixed in with a bad TOB noise while shifting. I've never heard a noise like that and as I would soon find out neither have multiple Master mechanics specializing in the 86 platform around SoFlo.

Blame Game:

Anybody want to take a guess at what happened next? I called KAB first because most of the sound seemed like a TOB issue but never accused him. I just wanted a 2nd look. He again was upset that I would even consider his work be possibly less than perfection but begrudgingly agreed. I got the car back to KAB's (Noteworthy - Geico covered most of my tows. Make sure the tow driver brings a flat and has experience towing low vehicles because they will crack your fenders). He lifted the car without test driving and said my brackets were bent by the recall tech and to take it back to Toyota. So I did. Toyota said they wanted $150 to inspect the car because they were confident it wasn't them. Battle of the egos? After inspecting they agreed to Idle noise was maybe their fault and bent the mounting brackets back to normal. SUCCESS. The idle noise was gone!! BUT they said one of the noises was a shifting noise and from the transmission and related to the replacement of the TOB collar. I thanked Kab for apparently solving one of the two issues and I tried to take it back to KAB's but he said it was their fault and to pressure them to fix their mistake. That both noises were the same. He was right the first time I guess so I did and Toyota took the car for two weeks of inspecting (or maybe just sitting in the parking lot, who knows). They gave it back 100% it wasnt them. KAB at this point was fed up with this whole situation and said his shop was not taking new cars because of the coronavirus. Mind you, I just wanted a test drive/inspection, this was warranty work, mechanics were exempt from the lockdown in Florida and deemed essential businesses, and they were still at the shop. I was not happy about this because my car was still raddling, possibly making things worse, and now he's saying he cant take it for almost a month. Worse yet, he stopped returning my emails too. I gave up, filed a complaint, and spent the next few weeks going to different Toyota/Subaru Mechanic shops familiar with the FA20 Block and the recall and getting 2nd opinions from anyone that would listen. All of them, said it was my Transmission except for 1 who said maybe the TOB sleeve wasn't greased or the TOB was missing the clips.

I also learned that I could duplicate the noise, normally only heard during shifting, by parking the car at a downward slope. I was parked at a driveway facing down and noticed it making the shifting noise at idle. Even better, I figured out that if the car was turned off on a downward slope it would still make the noise if you shook the car. Like an old matress with a 300lb guy rolling around on the springs. After the car cooled down though shaking it would not cause the noise. It had to be both warmed up and on a slope. There is also NO noise at any point (release, braking, ect.) in Reverse.

A month later (Today) I got the greenlight from Kab's to bring the car back so he could deal with the complaint. He was again going to lift without a test drive but I asked if he could test drive it because the noise is not there at idle. He agreed it was a different noise and was from the Transmission but said that the replacement of the TOB collar was a relatively simple job and would not cause that noise. He said it was likely that the transmission failed naturally on its own since it has over 125k miles on it. I asked if he could jack the rear to create an artifical slope so we could hear at idle or off but it felt like he just wanted his photos so he could prove his TOB work was done right and then wanted me out. So here I am today.

I want to be clear. I don't know who is to blame here. Could it be the Valve Springs squeaking? Maybe. It sounds like squeaking springs. Bad recall work? Maybe? Could the trans shop have accidentally dislodged something? I don't know. Maybe it just needs a Transmission Fluid swap, it still has the original fluid. Or Kab is correct and the trans went out coincidentally at the sane time he replaced the collar. I ordered the parts from a Toyota Direct Website. Maybe its neither the dealer or transmission shop and bad parts from them. It's anybody's guess.

I attached videos of the noise but im not sure if they will come up. If not I'll attach YouTube clips tomorrow.

Let me know what you guys think the problem is.

Thank you and I will try to update this thread once I get myself out of this situation.



https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ee066cc..._190918090.mp4

https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5ee06739..._005228231.mp4



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Old 06-10-2020, 01:45 AM   #2
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Looks like they tried to add the rear main seal and slave cylinder replacement? Those seem unnecessary, unless there's a problem there too?

I've also read that the new TOB requires a meticulous install procedure different from the old bearing. Somebody should chime in on this. Perhaps the shop wasn't aware of the new TOB's install procedure.

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Old 06-10-2020, 02:55 AM   #3
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YIKES - what a nightmare!

I'd suggest you put that puppy back together and trade it in on a new car.
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Old 06-10-2020, 10:46 AM   #4
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KAB sounds like a bunch of assclowns to me.
@Opie - any thoughts on this issue?
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Old 06-10-2020, 01:03 PM   #5
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Couldn't see/hear the video...

Are the pictures above prior to the TOB repair? Or what was found on their re inspection?

Have they pulled the transmission again to inspect their work?

I don't see any gear oil charged out on that bill and am pretty sure you lose some when you remove the bearing shaft from the transmission...is the transmission full of fluid?

Scratch that...was just able to watch the video's. Something is loose, or touching something that is shouldn't be. transmission mounting? Front metal skid plate? Exhaust Front Pipe mount? Motor Mount?
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Old 06-10-2020, 03:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Opie View Post
Couldn't see/hear the video...

Are the pictures above prior to the TOB repair? Or what was found on their re inspection?

Have they pulled the transmission again to inspect their work?

I don't see any gear oil charged out on that bill and am pretty sure you lose some when you remove the bearing shaft from the transmission...is the transmission full of fluid?

Scratch that...was just able to watch the video's. Something is loose, or touching something that is shouldn't be. transmission mounting? Front metal skid plate? Exhaust Front Pipe mount? Motor Mount?
There ya go.

Waaay back in the day, I had just bought a brand new 1970 MGB-GT and it was making a sound kinda like that. I took it back to the dealer. The tech took it for a drive, came back, put it up on a hoist, fiddled underneath for a few minutes, let it down off the hoist, tossed me the keys and said it was fixed.

I ask him what he did to fix it? He told me that when the engine torqued over it was causing the transmission to hit the transmission tunnel and making that noise. I asked him what he did to fix it, he said that he took a crowbar and put a dent in the transmission tunnel where the transmission was touching it.

And NO, his name wasn't Bubba -
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:04 PM   #7
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I’d check the dust cover under the flywheel. It is bolted to the bottom of the engine just behind the oil pan. Could be loose or bent. While you are there I would pull it off and see if there are any shavings or outward signs of damage. Maybe stick a screwdriver behind the flywheel and see if you can wiggle it.

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Old 06-11-2020, 11:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by radroach View Post
Looks like they tried to add the rear main seal and slave cylinder replacement? Those seem unnecessary, unless there's a problem there too?

I've also read that the new TOB requires a meticulous install procedure different from the old bearing. Somebody should chime in on this. Perhaps the shop wasn't aware of the new TOB's install procedure.
Interesting. I haven't heard about the new install procedure but these are the photos he took that he said proves a correct installation. Any link to the thread you read so I can read about it?

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Old 06-11-2020, 11:06 AM   #9
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YIKES - what a nightmare!

I'd suggest you put that puppy back together and trade it in on a new car.
I don't ever plan on selling this car. I'd rather park it in a barn and come back years later with the money to do a full restore haha

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Old 06-11-2020, 11:17 AM   #10
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KAB sounds like a bunch of assclowns to me.
@Opie - any thoughts on this issue?
My e-brake leather was mysteriously torn in the process as well haha I can only laugh at this point. I didn't think that was possible so I never took photos and can't prove anything but wow from now on full videos before every job I don't do on my own.

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Old 06-11-2020, 11:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Opie View Post
Couldn't see/hear the video...

Are the pictures above prior to the TOB repair? Or what was found on their re inspection?

Have they pulled the transmission again to inspect their work?

I don't see any gear oil charged out on that bill and am pretty sure you lose some when you remove the bearing shaft from the transmission...is the transmission full of fluid?

Scratch that...was just able to watch the video's. Something is loose, or touching something that is shouldn't be. transmission mounting? Front metal skid plate? Exhaust Front Pipe mount? Motor Mount?
The dealer had the car for two weeks and said they didnt pull apart the engine again but they were confident it was from inside the transmission. They even said if a mechanic fixes my car and it turns out to be related to the recall work I could file a claim to be refunded for my expenses. The transmission shop refused to re-pull the transmission. They used a stethoscope to listen and said it was the transmission but that the replacement of the collar/sleeve would not have created that noise. They are confident the transmission is making this noise now by coincidence and because it has 125k miles on it.

I hope you are right and maybe it loss fluid. God what a blessing that would be to swap some 300 in there and all my problems to go away. Buying the fluid today from ft86 speedfactory. Their video looked simple enough. Thanks for the other ideas too. I'll look into clearences. I'm going to have to lift the rear and listen for myself. Would be a lot easier if I had a garage or driveway. Thx

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Old 06-11-2020, 11:37 AM   #12
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There ya go.



Waaay back in the day, I had just bought a brand new 1970 MGB-GT and it was making a sound kinda like that. I took it back to the dealer. The tech took it for a drive, came back, put it up on a hoist, fiddled underneath for a few minutes, let it down off the hoist, tossed me the keys and said it was fixed.



I ask him what he did to fix it? He told me that when the engine torqued over it was causing the transmission to hit the transmission tunnel and making that noise. I asked him what he did to fix it, he said that he took a crowbar and put a dent in the transmission tunnel where the transmission was touching it.



And NO, his name wasn't Bubba -
hahahaha Exactly!! I was very confident it was something rubbing especially when the dealer fixed the first noise by bending the mounting brackets. But he said he checked every which way for two weeks and it wasn't clearence. I saw my car parked outside a few days so im not sure how much they looked at it.

Whenever the engine is torque'd or shifting around it makes that noise even off (when warm) BUT what I don't get is why not in reverse? Does the engine not shift a bit in reverse? I can drive 20mph in reverse and brake as hard as I want and no noises. Maybe the engine lurches away at a different angle in reverse.

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Old 06-11-2020, 11:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I’d check the dust cover under the flywheel. It is bolted to the bottom of the engine just behind the oil pan. Could be loose or bent. While you are there I would pull it off and see if there are any shavings or outward signs of damage. Maybe stick a screwdriver behind the flywheel and see if you can wiggle it.

Good idea. I went back to an OEM Flywheel from a lightweight flywheel. Could be related. Though if it was wouldn't it also make the noise on cold starts and in reverse? That would suck if it was the Flywheel this whole time.

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Old 06-11-2020, 11:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boricua View Post
Good idea. I went back to an OEM Flywheel from a lightweight flywheel. Could be related. Though if it was wouldn't it also make the noise on cold starts and in reverse? That would suck if it was the Flywheel this whole time.

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I would think so too. Just trying to rule out anything that could contribute to the noise that is not inside the transmission or part of the clutch assembly.
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