Good static front/rear camber for street and track?

[dp1]

Hi, looking for optimal static camber numbers (front/rear) that work well on track while car is primarily driven on street.

Starting assumptions:
- Live in NE, drive on the street year-round and and visit regional tracks from May until Sep
- Ohlins Road & Track, slightly lowered from stock
- 235/40-17 UTQG 100 rubber on track, 225/45-17 UTQG 300 for summer street, also dedicated winter tires in cold months.
- Have other parts that allow camber adjustment in front and rear
- Don't mind adjusting camber twice per year - more aggressive in Spring for street and track use and less in the fall for cold months
- Don't mind camber that causes increased/uneven tire wear (within reason) on the street, for as long as car is not a handful on the street.

It appears that numbers around 2.0-2.5 front and 1.5-2.0 rear could make sense, but I'd much appreciate your confirmation if you have track experience with a primarily street-driven car.

Please advise

[Racecomp Engineering]

-2.5 front and -2.0 rear would work okay. Some suspension shops *cough like us cough* have had these Ohlins on their shop cars and tracked + streeted them. Probably the best place to get them since they'd come with lots of set-up advice.

- Andy

[dp1]

I'll start adding info from other posts, please join in...

@mav1178:
"Front is -2.25, zero toe.
Rear is -1.5, zero toe. Rear camber is static, as it is what the car's camber ended up at after I "slammed" the Ohlins.
And when I mean slammed, I mean I adjusted it as low as they can go... which isn't much. Around -25mm front and -20mm rear versus stock. Barely lower than Eibach Prokits."

[dp1]

@normancw:
"I have Eibach Pro-Kit springs (~7/8" drop) with stock shocks and camber bolts set to -1.8. I think I need more camber on the track - at my last lapping session, the outside of my tires were hotter than the inside."

[dp1]

@CSG Mike and @Dezoris, please advise, thank you

[dp1]

@CSG David:
"Running -2 degrees of camber will be fine although I would recommend more camber up front for better wear on track. We run -3.3 on the BRZ up front and -2.4 in the rear. So far even wear on track use. Remember McPherson struts in front lose camber upon compression. Toe is what kills the tires the most. Our commutes to the track are 100mi (160km) to 240mi (384km) each way and we did not see any extra wear. Car is also driven in heavy LA traffic multiple 100 mile (160km) commutes to meets."

[dp1]

@CSG Mike:
""Quote:
Originally Posted by BRZ NA View Post
Damn really?I thought -2.5 should be very decent camber for track already?"

It depends on the spring rates and how much roll the car is experiencing, as well as the model of the tire, the tire size vs rim size, etc.

However, as a rule of thumb, -3 is a good starting point for the front on a track car. Lower rates will need more camber, and vice versa."

[dp1]

@Slick:
"I'm at -2.2 all around, track the car quite a bit and still find a bit more wear on the inside."

[dp1]

@ZDan:
"Model I made of the FR-S front suspension (from link to geometry I found on this site, accuracy not validated, but not too dissimilar from my 240Z strut models) has it gaining negative camber at the rate of 0.6 degrees per inch of bump travel from static. At 3" of bump travel, it's still gaining 0.3 degrees per inch of travel. Camber gain doesn't stop until 4" of bump, at which point it's gained 1.45 degrees.

To the OP, at the camber levels you're talking about (-1.5/-2), more is going to pretty much be better for ultimate lateral grip, up to something on the order of 3 degrees.

Really, anything in the ~2-2.5 degree range is going to be OK for a street/track/autoX compromise setup."

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by dp1

@CSG Mike and @Dezoris, please advise, thank you

I think CSG and I will give you opposite opinions, I am much more conservative.

10mm drop front and rear and running -2.0F and -1.5R for camber.
This for me is an excellent middle ground for 80% street and 20% track. Any more and you are wasting rubber daily driving.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by dp1

It appears that numbers around 2.0-2.5 front and 1.5-2.0 rear could make sense, but I'd much appreciate your confirmation if you have track experience with a primarily street-driven car.

While almost everyone can benefit from additional camber... in the end, it will make a bigger difference if you were able to try out different settings and keep adjusting the alignment based on the handling of the car.

If I were you, I'd start off with the key component: coilovers. Then try to get as close to your "street" and "track" settings.

Find a consistent set of roads or track event and drive the car. You'll probably find a setting (alignment and suspension) that you prefer... go from there.

OR, find a race-oriented alignment shop, tell them how your car is set up, if you want more oversteer, understeer, turn-in feel, corner entry, corner exit, blah blah. And they can set it up.

Alignments aren't rocket science, however each person has their own preference. There's no wrong solution unless you're running static positive camber.

-alex

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I think CSG and I will give you opposite opinions, I am much more conservative.

10mm drop front and rear and running -2.0F and -1.5R for camber.
This for me is an excellent middle ground for 80% street and 20% track. Any more and you are wasting rubber daily driving.

I wouldn't call it opposing opinions, just different end goals. If you were to ask CSG for alignment specs for your driving mix I bet they would be pretty close to your suggestion

What they run on their shop car is definitely more focused on track performance than tire wear on something that sees more street miles by far.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I wouldn't call it opposing opinions, just different end goals. If you were to ask CSG for alignment specs for your driving mix I bet they would be pretty close to your suggestion

What they run on their shop car is definitely more focused on track performance than tire wear on something that sees more street miles by far.

Thanks, really I just meant they will be on the agressive end of a reasonable range and I always run on the conservative side. On paper it probably looks opposing.

[dp1]

Over $20k is going into the car now (should be done by next weekend) so thanks for your timely and valuable feedback @Racecomp Engineering, @Dezoris, @mav1178 and @wparsons.

Even though I track only up to 10 days per year, I still want them to be special, even at the expense of tire wear on street

Car also needs to behave in winter with dedicated winter tires, so I might realign differently for the winter months.

I've been driving Lotus Elise on track for the past 3 years and I've seen how much camber, good suspension, rubber and track pads can help make a light momentum mid-engine car feel better and go faster.

Not looking for that with the FR-S, I know I have to compromise for a daily. I like the 10mm front/rear drop suggestion from @Dezoris. Wheel gap does not bother me at all and I don't want to scrape the front. @Dezoris, I assume the 10mm drop all round maintains appropriate rake, right?

I think that I will start with -2.5f/-2.0r for track/summer street, then evaluate after track use.

Should have also mentioned JR SC and AP Racing Sprint kit with Carbotech XP12 all around for track.