(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[soundman98]

That yaris has no rear axle. Just a tire tube!

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Their figures are bullshit a this point. It is just another rewrite of the same old shit. Clickbaits quoting clickbaits is not news.

Right, but if they're going to speculate, I think this one would be acceptable were it to happen!

[wbradley]

So, according to the Torque News article, the car's dimensions stay the same, as does the platform. Yaaaayyyy!

I think that decision would be excellent. Add 20% displacement, keep stroke same (still have something that is 86mm). First year GR86, packed full 'o Toyota Easter eggs. Like they did with the FR-S.
Believe it.
Price point not much farther out. I, for one do remember the intro price of the FR-S, which someone pointed out, IS the cheapest rear wheel drive sporty car in the market. Keep it that way.
Should I be looking to buy a Supra? It would have to be my daily winter car for the numbers to work and for sure my FR-S is a tough sale as-is. A dealeo for the right person, if includes the stock parts or maybe just go back to NA beforehand.

Assuming all the fine countries recover to their pre-pandemic economic prosperity, there should be some serious demand for this vehicle when it is ready for launch. I have only 1 question, same as last time. What day will it go on sale?

One caveat- This can all be dropped between now and 2021, so I'd treat this as nothing being carved in stone. This is 100% based on demand. I have chatted with people interested in getting their first 86 when 2nd gen arrives. There is definitely a following to come. A guy that owns a 99 Civic SiR from new on an unrelated forum is typical. He's thinks it's going to be a turbo on a Toyota platform etc. He's on the fence re: getting a 1st gen vs waiting.

I'm interested in the WRX going to a 1.8 T and STI 2.4 T tuned. My 2018 STI lease is up in Dec and I was going to buy it out, maybe drive it a year and trade for the next STI the following year.
THEIR clickbait rumours say around 300 kW, which is almost 400 hp. I'll take mine 384 like the 2021 GR Supra 3.0, or sunny side up.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by wbradley

So, according to the Torque News article that I received in my Google stuff today, the car's dimensions stay the same, as does the platform. Yaaaayyyy!

I think the decision is excellent. Add 20% displacement, keep stroke same (still have something that is 86mm). First year GR86, packed full 'o Toyota Easter eggs. Like they did with the FR-S.
Believe it.
Price point not much farther out. I, for one do remember the intro price of the FR-S, which someone pointed out, IS the cheapest rear wheel drive sporty car in the market. Keep it that way.
Should I be looking to buy a Supra? It would have to be my daily winter car for the numbers to work and for sure my FR-S is a tough sale as-is. A dealeo for the right person, if includes the stock parts or maybe just go back to NA beforehand.

Assuming all the fine countries recover to their pre-pandemic economic prosperity, there should be some serious demand for this vehicle when it is ready for launch. I have only 1 question, same as last time. What day will it go on sale?

One caveat- This can all be dropped between now and 2021, so I'd treat this as nothing being carved in stone. This is 100% based on demand. I have chatted with people interested in getting their first 86 when 2nd gen arrives. There is definitely a following to come. A guy that owns a 99 Civic SiR from new on an unrelated forum is typical. He's thinks it's going to be a turbo on a Toyota platform etc. He's on the fence re: getting a 1st gen vs waiting.

I'm interested in the WRX going to a 1.8 T and STI 2.4 T tuned. My 2018 STI lease is up in Dec and I was going to buy it out, maybe drive it a year and trade for the next STI the following year.
THEIR clickbait rumours say around 300 kW, which is almost 400 hp. I'll take mine 384 like the 2021 GR Supra 3.0, or sunny side up.

If 255hp is correct, the Supra 2.0 will have less HP per pound than the GR86. I have not driven a Supra, but was planning to buy a '21, before I came back to the 86. I can say that it's been difficult for me, transitioning from decades of MT cars, to autos, at least in a sports/fun car. My Wife is crazy about the LC500 we have, but the downshift lag is slow to the point the the cars feels lazy to me when I want power. Even the 718 PDK I test drove, before coming back to the 86, was underwhelming, and we know the ZF in the Supra won't best a PDK. Folks are quick to point out the 2.0 is 200lbs lighter than the 3.0, but they're both pigs compared to the twins. Lastly, if reliability and resale are important to you, take a hard look at BMW. I hope the Supra avoids the BMW pitfalls, but it's early yet for the Supra. One positive is that Toyota/Lexus have proven that they best the Germans (and Subaru, for that matter), when it come to warranty service. This was important to me in choosing the 86 over the BRZ as a early adopter back in '13. If the Supra offered a MT, I may have had to try one. I still may, if Toyota offers the car with a MT in future. That said, it looks like Toyota is staying conservative with published power #s:

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by phm14

If 255hp is correct, the Supra 2.0 will have less HP per pound than the GR86. I have not driven a Supra, but was planning to buy a '21, before I came back to the 86. I can say that it's been difficult for me, transitioning from decades of MT cars, to autos, at least in a sports/fun car. My Wife is crazy about the LC500 we have, but the downshift lag is slow to the point the the cars feels lazy to me when I want power. Even the 718 PDK I test drove, before coming back to the 86, was underwhelming, and we know the ZF in the Supra won't best a PDK. Folks are quick to point out the 2.0 is 200lbs lighter than the 3.0, but they're both pigs compared to the twins. Lastly, if reliability and resale are important to you, take a hard look at BMW. I hope the Supra avoids the BMW pitfalls, but it's early yet for the Supra. One positive is that Toyota/Lexus have proven that they best the Germans (and Subaru, for that matter), when it come to warranty service. This was important to me in choosing the 86 over the BRZ as a early adopter back in '13. If the Supra offered a MT, I may have had to try one. I still may, if Toyota offers the car with a MT in future.

Keep in mind torque figures and also things line NVH and general comfort, which will be better in the Supra. One is an entry level sports car, the other one is in a different class. Horsepower alone the cheaper car wins. I hope they sell a lot of them that way. Class and refinement, Supra wins and also not every Supra driver will need that much power. Some people would buy it because it's a really nice car. My mother, if she was still alive would probably have liked it. She had a new full loaded red coloured Celica GTS in 1990.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Right, but if they're going to speculate, I think this one would be acceptable were it to happen!

They have thrown so many numbers out at this point that something will be close. Then all the clickbait believers will say "See they knew all along" while forgetting the other 20 wrong guesses.

[Ernest72]

I think they will disappoint. Too many compromises and it’s going to be a tough market out there.

Plus if it’s not a significant change, I see no reason to trade up and take that depreciation hit for a DD.

New purchases or people looking to track well, then it is likely worth it. But I would still buy a used one for dirt cheap and build the track machine I want, it’s more fun.

Think about it, if old boxters go for 10k, these cars in a few years will be under 10k for sure. Pending what’s needed for a weekend track car it could be a deal.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Keep in mind torque figures and also things line NVH and general comfort, which will be better in the Supra. One is an entry level sports car, the other one is in a different class. Horsepower alone the cheaper car wins. I hope they sell a lot of them that way. Class and refinement, Supra wins and also not every Supra driver will need that much power. Some people would buy it because it's a really nice car. My mother, if she was still alive would probably have liked it. She had a new full loaded red coloured Celica GTS in 1990.

Good points that hold true for any more expensive/powerful/luxurious car out there. In contrast, I like my 86 seats, and pedal layout, better than the 14 way seats and MT pedal layout in the '18 911C I sold last year. Reduce NVH, and things like weight and road feel suffer. I appreciate the fact that the twins are a drivers bargain, perfectly enjoyable as shipped, or as a blank canvas that lets me put money for improvements where I want it, instead of paying engineers and bean counters to decide for me. I recently took the Wife across the ferry at Galveston for a day at the beach, at an area where you can drive and park on the beach. I might have thought twice about that with some of the much more expensive cars we've owned recently, possibly taking the truck, and losing most of the fun of the journey. The less I use a expensive car, the more it begins to feel like a financial albatross. When I take a major road trip, I'm usually hauling toys, so the "fun" car stays home in the garage. All we can do it choose the best fit for our wants at the time, and those wants are a moving target for most of us. I hope Toyota sells many Supras and GR86s. Competition in the market is great for we consumers, and I'm happy to see Toyota stepping up. Hopefully those waiting for their new cars will see them sooner than later.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I think they will disappoint. Too many compromises and it’s going to be a tough market out there.

Plus if it’s not a significant change, I see no reason to trade up and take that depreciation hit for a DD.

New purchases or people looking to track well, then it is likely worth it. But I would still buy a used one for dirt cheap and build the track machine I want, it’s more fun.

Think about it, if old boxters go for 10k, these cars in a few years will be under 10k for sure. Pending what’s needed for a weekend track car it could be a deal.

Having the time and proclivity to turn your own wrenches definitely opens up opportunities for higher value per buck, and DIY accomplishment. Never been easier for those who want to work on their own machines, but lack experience and a personal mentor, to get some tools/guidance and get to work...

[Aluma007]

I can just imagine subaru getting the supra 2.0 and just slapping a brz badge on it...just like the eclipse/talon sisters...LOL

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I think they will disappoint. Too many compromises and it’s going to be a tough market out there.

Plus if it’s not a significant change, I see no reason to trade up and take that depreciation hit for a DD.

New purchases or people looking to track well, then it is likely worth it. But I would still buy a used one for dirt cheap and build the track machine I want, it’s more fun.

Think about it, if old boxters go for 10k, these cars in a few years will be under 10k for sure. Pending what’s needed for a weekend track car it could be a deal.

"Compromises"? Yes. Even though vehicles have never been cleaner, manufacturers are forced to comply with constantly increasing enviro regs, imposed by regulators who rarely seem to consider the unintended consequences of their actions. We as consumers eat the high costs, while these regulations send much general production to countries like China, doing the environment more harm than good. I don't even want to think about how much time and money I've spent fixing cars, bikes, and other equipment that runs too lean due to California regulations. Don't get me started on ethanol... This over regulation (for the majority of local pollution levels), contributes to the attraction of less strangled, older cars. Even though progress in cleaner burning machines is a good thing, regulating bureaucrats will always go too far, to serve their personal interests over what is prudent.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Aluma007

I can just imagine subaru getting the supra 2.0 and just slapping a brz badge on it...just like the eclipse/talon sisters...LOL

You missed a sibling.



And no Subaru will not get a version of the Supra. It is a whole different thing than the DSM situation.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by phm14

Having the time and proclivity to turn your own wrenches definitely opens up opportunities for higher value per buck, and DIY accomplishment. Never been easier for those who want to work on their own machines, but lack experience and a personal mentor, to get some tools/guidance and get to work...

I beg to differ!
Used to be much much easier to just grab a wrench and learn as you go.

No ECUs, injectors, coilpacks, evap system, etc, etc.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I beg to differ!
Used to be much much easier to just grab a wrench and learn as you go.

No ECUs, injectors, coilpacks, evap system, etc, etc.

I have to agree here. I grew up helping work on Chevy 305s, 350s and 383s (Family friend was a Camaro/Firebird enthusiast) They are non-nonsense machines, just keep your mouth closed while adjusting the carb and don't let your teenager sit in the car while you're doing it.