All-New 2022 Subaru BRZ Makes Global Debut

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

OK. I guess I would have to drive something "better" to experience it and understand it.

I kind of dont understand the transmission stuff either.

Between a traditional automatic and a DCT
Is it just the shift speed?

My X1's 8speed tranny shifts fast.....I cant imagine it shifting any faster than it to make a difference. the only thing i can really think of that would be "better" is if the shifts were "smoother", its already pretty fast and smooth as is.

And paddle response....the only thing that matters to me is if it actually response immediately to a click, which mine does if the car is in sport mode and driven hard. Its slow and kind of laggy when driven leisurely. I found that behavior the same in the FRS auto i test drove along time ago.

Ive heard DCT's "feels" like a manual but it never did to me...just felt like an automatic with a bit more herky jerkiness to it when accelerating from a stop.

[Veloist]

I enjoyed the ZF8 transmission in the GR Supra. It was instant and quick both up and down the gears. Don't know how to explain but even when I wasn't using the paddle shifters, there was a crisp sensation when it shifted especially under hard acceleration. It was very tactile.

I can't say for sure it beats using a clutch though and feeling the shifter go into gear, especially a mechanical one like the twins. A great auto transmission is great for performance and no matter which way you look at it, having a great performing vehicle is pretty enjoyable...

I've driven plenty of 86's in Auto. They shift quickly up and down too. It's not an instant feeling like the ZF8 and it's not as tactile.

But if you haven't driven any other great-performing autos, the 86's auto transmission is pretty good.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Either Subaru/Toyota have really backslid on the AT or the SavageGeese crew are having issues with driving an AT.

Eh, it's really a demonstrably bad transmission in 2021. Sure, if you don't drive a lot of modern cars then it might seem adequate. Fortunately, my position allows me to drive nearly ever production vehicle in existence, and I can say with confidence it's a very meh AT. We've also benchmarked the transmission, and even from an efficiency standpoint (spin loss) it rates very poorly.

Worth noting the one in the ND2 Miata is equally as meh. Not a huge deal, since you really shouldn't be getting the AT in these vehicles unless you have a health issue or you hate having fun.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Eh, it's really a demonstrably bad transmission in 2021. Sure, if you don't drive a lot of modern cars then it might seem adequate. Fortunately, my position allows me to drive nearly ever production vehicle in existence, and I can say with confidence it's a very meh AT. We've also benchmarked the transmission, and even from an efficiency standpoint (spin loss) it rates very poorly.

I would expect a 10 year old transmission design (like the one in my car) not to stand up to current day design, assuming the OEMs are continuing to evolve the species, which obviously they are. Therefore, I would expect the 2022 AT to be better not worse, or even the same. If it is no improvement, or it has backslid, then yea MT all the way.

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Worth noting the one in the ND2 Miata is equally as meh. Not a huge deal, since you really shouldn't be getting the AT in these vehicles unless you have a health issue or you hate having fun.

Had to just throw that last insult in didn't you? Couldn't let it go. It's OK I accept your right to be wrong.

[nikitopo]

A health issue or hate to have fun in AT? Omg ..

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

My X1's 8speed tranny shifts fast.....I cant imagine it shifting any faster than it to make a difference. the only thing i can really think of that would be "better" is if the shifts were "smoother", its already pretty fast and smooth as is.

That is a ZF8 speed, right?

A lot of journalists talk about that transmission like it is 2nd only to Porsche's PDK. Which makes sense considering it is a more premium transmission and is found in nearly everything over $40K.

For reference - PDK

Can't find a comparable ZF clip. But FRS for comparo... not that bad considering the price.

[new2subaru]

I'll take the sub 30K car with the 3 millisecond delay, thank you

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I'll take the sub 30K car with the 3 millisecond delay, thank you

For me, it's not the upshifts that are the issue, it's almost always the downshifts.

The Supra with the ZF can crack off 8 to 3 downshifts immediately and can also drop gears as fast as you can click the paddles even into first gear for the most part. I hate when I try to downshift an automatic and it feels super mushy and/or prevents downshifting.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Kona61

For me, it's not the upshifts that are the issue, it's almost always the downshifts.

The Supra with the ZF can crack off 8 to 3 downshifts immediately and can also drop gears as fast as you can click the paddles even into first gear for the most part. I hate when I try to downshift an automatic and it feels super mushy and/or prevents downshifting.

I must just be used to it? It seems fine to me and I track the car quite a bit. I've never driven anything with paddle shifters prior to the FR-S.

I'll have to test drive a Supra someday, if I can get in the cabin lol

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I'll have to test drive a Supra someday, if I can get in the cabin lol

For me getting in was no problem - it was seeing out that was the issue. In that respect the Supra makes the 370Z feel like an AMC Pacer.

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

For me getting in was no problem - it was seeing out that was the issue. In that respect the Supra makes the 370Z feel like an AMC Pacer.

That is one major shortcoming. It’s pretty level with a Camaro in terms of submarine/gunslot feel lol. Luckily it’s not a big car.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Kona61

For me, it's not the upshifts that are the issue, it's almost always the downshifts. .

I downshift manually all the time, even when in full auto mode, never noticed a problem, even if dropping two or three gears. It doesn't stop in between if you do it fast enough.

I mean, I get it, if you are a "MT or die" type it won't matter what the AT does, it won't satisfy you. That's OK. But really, particularly for a sub-30K car (or sub $5,000 car in my case) it's pretty damn good.

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I downshift manually all the time, even when in full auto mode, never noticed a problem, even if dropping two or three gears. It doesn't stop in between if you do it fast enough.

I mean, I get it, if you are a "MT or die" type it won't matter what the AT does, it won't satisfy you. That's OK. But really, particularly for a sub-30K car (or sub $5,000 car in my case) it's pretty damn good.

I still disagree though, it’s fine-ish in my opinion but every other car has a faster responding and snappier trans than the twins. Now reliability and power-holding are entirely different, but it’s deficient enough for me to only consider manual equipped twins.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I downshift manually all the time, even when in full auto mode, never noticed a problem, even if dropping two or three gears. It doesn't stop in between if you do it fast enough.

I mean, I get it, if you are a "MT or die" type it won't matter what the AT does, it won't satisfy you. That's OK. But really, particularly for a sub-30K car (or sub $5,000 car in my case) it's pretty damn good.

See, this is the thing, I jump between a MT JUKE Nismo RS (Don't laugh it's a lot of fun ) and the AT FR-S all the time and still enjoy the paddles.