17 year old looking for BRZ as a first car.

[ryoma]

@exE36M3 you sound like a cool dad.

[TimmyC]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

FWIW, I'm a 45 year old dad of two. I come from BMWs and Miatas. Heck I even carry around a BMW Car Club of America card in my wallet (going 20 years now).

Per the *original* post, I think the BRZ is a pretty good first sports car. A few reasons...

1. Incredible handling versus power - the BRZ (NOT THE FRS) let's you make small mistakes and doesn't punish you for it. Cars like this are the Lotus', Miatas, BMWs (3 series from 80s-90), heck even the Civics, RSXs, Integras. It's a great learning platform because you can explore/push the cars limits without killing yourself. (Caveat - do *explore* in an open parking lot or auto-cross or performance school, don't do this on some public road.)

2. Subaru/Japanese build quality - A lot of kids grow never knowing what this means but let me tell you, from the 70s to the 90s, the Japanese owned anything that could be made. Especially cars. There's a reason why there are SOOO many Japanese cars still on the road 20 years later. The current batch of Japanese cars can be iffy as they are trying to use domestic parts suppliers to abate import taxes. Sadly, it's killed the reliability of most newer Japanese cars. HOWEVER, the Subaru is all Japanese (as is Mazda) and if you look at the most reliable cars and sales numbers... this helps explain why.

And build quality is what keeps long-term maintenance to a minimum.
If this means anything, my 7-year gold warranty from Subaru was only $900.
The average drive up repair in NorCal is $500-$1000. Subuaru must REALLY trust their cars if they can pull that kind of extended warranty for that cheap. (My GMC Acadia was $2500 for only 4 years in comparison).

3. You can still work on it yourself - The BRZ has some electronics, some software, some complexities, but it's not so sophisticated you can't pull suspension, brakes, intake, headers, driveline, etc. All the stuff guys like to do to their cars or just maintenance, you can do without a trip to the dealer for "resets" or a special software tool.


My kid is a freshman in high school. She'll be learning how to drive a stick in the BRZ. And as soon as she's got her license, she's doing the BMW club Street Survival Schools and Car Control Clinics and track days... in the BRZ.

By the time she's old enough and has money enough to get her first M3, she will destroy the boys who's last performance training was Driver Ed... because she's gonna learn to drive the right way.

So as a dad, I'd tell your dad the BRZ is a good choice.
Put a performance school #1 on your "upgrade" list before anything like new suspension, spoilers, etc. The skills you will pick-up will follow-you up to when you buy your first Porsche or Vette.

Best wishes my man. Enjoy!

Why not the FRS?

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by TimmyC

Why not the FRS?

In the OP's case, IIRC, he is buying an older 2013-2014 twin, and back then, the suspension on the FR-S allowed it to be more tail happy than the BRZ. Still, I don't see why not the FR-S; the BRZ can be just as prone to being tail happy if the driver wishes to mash the foot pedal through a turn.

[Babel]

Or get a Z car.

[Fastbrew]

My first instinct is to say "No".

I think there are more suitable cars to learn in.

That said - these cars are safe.

Here are the cons -
1) They are a bit hard to see for other drivers.
2) They are a bit hard to see out of.
3) They attract the wrong kind of attention for a new driver - the come race me bro crew and the I am going to cut you off crew
4) They encourage limit driving
5) An all wheel drive car can give you more predictable handling in variable conditions

So - I am not saying "don't do it" I am just saying there are better choices for a first car. You will need a few years under your belt until you have encountered the majority of things that you will need to learn about.

On the topic of motorcycles - I almost always recommend some form of dual-sport / dirt bike to get the chops down. Then move onto the more specialized vehicles.

[mattyd97]

Got my BRZ at 17 and let me tell you I love the car but hate paying the insurance

[benrz]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

FWIW, I'm a 45 year old dad of two. I come from BMWs and Miatas. Heck I even carry around a BMW Car Club of America card in my wallet (going 20 years now).

Per the *original* post, I think the BRZ is a pretty good first sports car. A few reasons...

1. Incredible handling versus power - the BRZ (NOT THE FRS) let's you make small mistakes and doesn't punish you for it. Cars like this are the Lotus', Miatas, BMWs (3 series from 80s-90), heck even the Civics, RSXs, Integras. It's a great learning platform because you can explore/push the cars limits without killing yourself. (Caveat - do *explore* in an open parking lot or auto-cross or performance school, don't do this on some public road.)

2. Subaru/Japanese build quality - A lot of kids grow never knowing what this means but let me tell you, from the 70s to the 90s, the Japanese owned anything that could be made. Especially cars. There's a reason why there are SOOO many Japanese cars still on the road 20 years later. The current batch of Japanese cars can be iffy as they are trying to use domestic parts suppliers to abate import taxes. Sadly, it's killed the reliability of most newer Japanese cars. HOWEVER, the Subaru is all Japanese (as is Mazda) and if you look at the most reliable cars and sales numbers... this helps explain why.

And build quality is what keeps long-term maintenance to a minimum.
If this means anything, my 7-year gold warranty from Subaru was only $900.
The average drive up repair in NorCal is $500-$1000. Subuaru must REALLY trust their cars if they can pull that kind of extended warranty for that cheap. (My GMC Acadia was $2500 for only 4 years in comparison).

3. You can still work on it yourself - The BRZ has some electronics, some software, some complexities, but it's not so sophisticated you can't pull suspension, brakes, intake, headers, driveline, etc. All the stuff guys like to do to their cars or just maintenance, you can do without a trip to the dealer for "resets" or a special software tool.


My kid is a freshman in high school. She'll be learning how to drive a stick in the BRZ. And as soon as she's got her license, she's doing the BMW club Street Survival Schools and Car Control Clinics and track days... in the BRZ.

By the time she's old enough and has money enough to get her first M3, she will destroy the boys who's last performance training was Driver Ed... because she's gonna learn to drive the right way.

So as a dad, I'd tell your dad the BRZ is a good choice.
Put a performance school #1 on your "upgrade" list before anything like new suspension, spoilers, etc. The skills you will pick-up will follow-you up to when you buy your first Porsche or Vette.

Best wishes my man. Enjoy!

I already have a BRZ, but adopt me please.

[Steelscion]

I'd still wait for a little until you are older for insurance reasons. I'm 18 and got it when I was 17. I am very fortunate though because I have a very good job. If you buy an frs or brz your going to MOD it. Anyone who gets a stock 86 will be itching to do something. If I would do it again I'd wait until I was older.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[carma143]

Originally Posted by mattyd97

Got my BRZ at 17 and let me tell you I love the car but hate paying the insurance

But the insurance sure is cheaper than alot of other sport cars on the market.

[Jfheisenberg]

If you have the money and you are SURE that you can afford it (not your parents) then go for it, i would have love to have the money at that age to buy a BRZ/FRS. I got mine at 25 lol

[Steelscion]

You will also appreciate it more if you pay for it.

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[exE36M3]

FWIW - I'm not downing the FRS from a quality or handling standpoint... but the FRS is known to be a little more tail happy.
So not every *new* driver is going to know what to do when it steps out - that's a main reason why I wouldn't recommend it to a new driver.

I'm not sure if Toyota has changed this since 2013, but it was noticeable enough to have Motor Trend pick the BRZ over the FRS for best handling car testing.

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by exE36M3

FWIW - I'm not downing the FRS from a quality or handling standpoint... but the FRS is known to be a little more tail happy.
So not every *new* driver is going to know what to do when it steps out - that's a main reason why I wouldn't recommend it to a new driver.

I'm not sure if Toyota has changed this since 2013, but it was noticeable enough to have Motor Trend pick the BRZ over the FRS for best handling car testing.

Toyota neutered (detuned) the handling just like they always seem to do with their sportscars...suspension setup is very much like that of the BRZ for the '15 and up models. That's why I jumped on the FR-S bandwagon right at the beginning - I can't get vehicles that are sensitive enough. If you want the original FR-S factory suspension setup the '13 and '14 models are the ones you want. I do have much driving experience (years of Autocross and track) so the FR-S has always been my preference of the two based on how I like a vehicle to respond, but for a new driver I would agree a BRZ would be the better choice.

To the OP I'd say if you want a BRZ and you know a sports car is what you want to drive it would be a great first vehicle, the best and safest affordable sports car you can get. Its handling will spoil you however - so whenever you drive almost any other vehicle you will wonder why it feels so weird, disconnected, and just plain wrong to drive.... you will have withdrawal symptoms! If the BRZ is your first car, your second car would need to be something equivalent to a Lotus or Porsche to move up to a better overall handling sports car...

[campy]

You'll be fine as long as your parents are willing to foot the ever-increasing insurance bill.