follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 2nd Gens: GR86 and BRZ > GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86)

GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-15-2021, 11:08 AM   #43
ls1ac
Senior Member
 
ls1ac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: BRZ, Noble M400, AC-LS7,1956 AC
Location: Wi/Fl
Posts: 1,022
Thanks: 328
Thanked 867 Times in 471 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
I also did not like the second speedo either as it is skipping many numbers and holding for a very long time. The other difference between the old and new is the type of readout. the old were red led's and had a slower rate and were not darkening as quickly.
ls1ac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 03:02 PM   #44
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,703
Thanks: 2,127
Thanked 1,291 Times in 714 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Just because it doesn't skip doesn't mean it's accurate. Increases in velocity are not necessarily linear. If you go from 0 to 60MPH in 3 seconds that does not necessarily mean you pass through every xMPH in between 0 and 60MPH.
With a 60 Hz display (commodity) you can show every single mph number during a one second 0–60 launch.
That's way faster than even a Tesla Roadster.

Even in km/h you can show every single km/h number in a 1.7s 0-100 km/h launch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
you need to eat up cycles covering all the number between 0 and 10, so that by the time you show the 10, you have already accelerated past it, and the display is lagging.
Do the math and estimate what rate of acceleration is required to "lag" behind a 0...10 count?

I don't think anyone here specifically wants to see every single number during the acceleration.
I'm sure 10–20 Hz data refresh rate will be enough for everybody on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
However, if at the same time you are using an analog gauge, it will appear to go through each phase out of necessity [...] Now mind you we may be talking microseconds differences here, but there is a difference and programming choice has to be made.
Are you sure there's no latency in how an analog gauge works?
Any sensor, whether analog or digital, will have a certain "response time",
and then the needle in the gauge also has some inertia.

We are indeed talking about micro- or milliseconds here, and honestly I don't
think there's enough evidence to say whether analog or digital is going to be
more responsive. When was the last time you've seen an analog gauge in
an F1 car? Those guys surely care about both precision and latency.

There's nothing particularly inferior about what you can see on digital gauges,
other than just mediocre software engineering in this particular implementation.
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
Blighty (04-16-2021)
Old 04-15-2021, 03:27 PM   #45
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,791
Thanks: 38,767
Thanked 24,897 Times in 11,357 Posts
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr View Post
Are you sure there's no latency in how an analog gauge works?
I didn't intend to say there was no lag in an analog gauge, only that it can't "skip" numbers so it appears to show smooth measurement even though it may not be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr View Post
We are indeed talking about micro- or milliseconds here, and honestly I don't think there's enough evidence to say whether analog or digital is going to be more responsive.
My note was strictly about the programming of the digital display not comparing analog to digital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr View Post
There's nothing particularly inferior about what you can see on digital gauges, other than just mediocre software engineering in this particular implementation.
That was my point, its all down to the software, but that producing what appears to be a smooth increase in velocity on the speedometer does not mean it is any more accurate than the less smooth "skip number" method, and in the right circumstances could actually be less accurate.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 03:47 PM   #46
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,703
Thanks: 2,127
Thanked 1,291 Times in 714 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
... producing what appears to be a smooth increase in velocity on the speedometer does not mean it is any more accurate than the less smooth "skip number" method, and in the right circumstances could actually be less accurate.
That would be a correct point if the underlying data was only 2 Hz,
the digital display was already doing the best it could do,
and we were talking about artificial smoothing.

But as I mentioned above, the data from the sensor is transmitted digitally at 50 Hz.
As this data is used by the ESC and ABS systems, I'm sure it's pretty high resolution both when it comes to timing and readings.
Based on a lot of data I collected at the track, it is definitely good enough to be displayed at 10+ Hz.
So they could totally avoid skipping numbers without introducing any artificial delays due to smoothing.
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (04-15-2021)
Old 04-16-2021, 02:55 PM   #47
Dake
Senior Member
 
Dake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: FR-S
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,056
Thanks: 464
Thanked 819 Times in 414 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Based on GPS data, my digital speedo is consistently 1 mph fast and my analogue is about 2 fast (GPS says I'm going slower than car indicates), so "eh". Even when I'm flying I'm held to +/- 5 kts. Anything closer than that is showing off

What I'm saying is: I've yet to hear why this refresh rate matters in any remotely practical way.
Dake is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dake For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (04-16-2021), Transport3r (04-16-2021)
Old 04-16-2021, 04:05 PM   #48
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 19,791
Thanks: 38,767
Thanked 24,897 Times in 11,357 Posts
Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dake View Post
Based on GPS data, my digital speedo is consistently 1 mph fast and my analogue is about 2 fast (GPS says I'm going slower than car indicates), so "eh". Even when I'm flying I'm held to +/- 5 kts. Anything closer than that is showing off .
That's about normal.

US regulations require the speedo to be accurate to within +- 5 MPH at 50MPH. However, UK and some other countries say the speedometer cannot show you going slower than your actual speed.

Because of this most cars have a bias where your speed is under-reported.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2021, 04:15 PM   #49
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,703
Thanks: 2,127
Thanked 1,291 Times in 714 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dake View Post
Based on GPS data, my digital speedo is consistently 1 mph fast [...] I've yet to hear why this refresh rate matters in any remotely practical way.
As long as it is consistently off (based on my experiments, it is consisten), it can still be used as a pretty good reference when track driving.
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (04-16-2021)
Old 04-17-2021, 09:33 AM   #50
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2022 BRZ Limited Silver
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,532
Thanks: 882
Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,188 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
This has probably already been said but the current analog gauge is actually digital and driven off the same CANbus data that the new gauge will be. If anything I would think the new gauge would have less lag because it isn’t physically moving a needle.
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ermax For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (04-17-2021), timurrrr (04-18-2021)
Old 04-17-2021, 10:21 AM   #51
Kronk
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: Planning for GR86
Location: Milano, Italy
Posts: 69
Thanks: 24
Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ermax View Post
This has probably already been said but the current analog gauge is actually digital and driven off the same CANbus data that the new gauge will be. If anything I would think the new gauge would have less lag because it isn’t physically moving a needle.
If you look Here and zoom in, you can see a slow update of the instant speed, with no needle.

Hoping this is a pre-production version...
Kronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2021, 10:44 AM   #52
Transport3r
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Drives: -
Location: US
Posts: 288
Thanks: 203
Thanked 294 Times in 147 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Sounds like you’ll have to look for a different car that has the exact digital speedo smoothing rate you want. Good luck.
Transport3r is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Transport3r For This Useful Post:
Blighty (04-17-2021), NoHaveMSG (04-17-2021), Red-86 (04-18-2021), soundman98 (04-17-2021), Sport-Tech (04-17-2021)
Old 04-17-2021, 11:00 AM   #53
soundman98
ProCrastinationConsultant
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 Ranger, '18 Tacoma 4Dr LB
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 11,326
Thanks: 35,214
Thanked 13,661 Times in 6,778 Posts
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
at that rate, it'd be easier to just run your own speedo cable off the drive shaft. every MFG is moving to canbus instrumentation because it's easier to implement, and allows them to run their own custom variation of code to protect odometer data. gauge refresh rate is an afterthought.
__________________
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time"
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2021, 11:26 AM   #54
Kronk
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: Planning for GR86
Location: Milano, Italy
Posts: 69
Thanks: 24
Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transport3r View Post
Sounds like you’ll have to look for a different car that has the exact digital speedo smoothing rate you want. Good luck.
It’s just a thread on a cons to pass the time waiting for more news.
Take it easy.

I’m still interested in buying it.
Kronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2021, 01:55 PM   #55
ermax
Senior Member
 
ermax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2022 BRZ Limited Silver
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,532
Thanks: 882
Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,188 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronk View Post
If you look Here and zoom in, you can see a slow update of the instant speed, with no needle.

Hoping this is a pre-production version...

Oh sorry I was talking about the tach when the thread title says speedo. My mind said tach because who on earth would care about anything other than the tach.
ermax is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ermax For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (04-17-2021)
Old 04-18-2021, 07:54 AM   #56
Blighty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: WR Blue Pearl 2022 Subaru BRZ
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 818
Thanks: 790
Thanked 517 Times in 274 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronk View Post
If you look Here and zoom in, you can see a slow update of the instant speed, with no needle.

Hoping this is a pre-production version...
Erm, not likely.

Its done on purpose (the rest of the display is real-time) to make it easier to read.

I can tell you that its very effective and not uncomfortable in practice - they strike a good balance.
Blighty is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In-dash digital speedometer vaer Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 4 04-14-2020 10:19 AM
Does the BRZ get same refresh? snezze21 BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics 74 03-24-2016 01:51 PM
Convert the digital speedometer from Kmh to MPH? Jastation Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 10 09-28-2015 05:46 AM
Digital speedometer in base GT86? rhysmcinerney Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 25 01-22-2014 06:18 PM
Fast car Fast driver vinyl decal I need help francosolracer Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 18 10-20-2012 03:43 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.