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Old 07-22-2021, 11:10 AM   #2675
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Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
It would be interesting to look at the lap to lap overlays from Hamilton and Verstappen (and other drivers as well). I watched Jolyon Palmer's analysis and, while I find his analyses generally really informative, in this case I'm not completely convinced. And that' one place the overlays would be useful. I have the impression that Copse is taken flatout. My traditional brain tells me that a traditional widest arc line should be close to the fastest way through it. Palmer is suggesting that Lewis was habitually apexing the corner very, very early. That's going to put him way wide on the exit. I'm curious. I see that Silverstone is a track with multiple lines through many of the corners. It would be interesting to see which drivers would choose to take which lines.
Copse is typically taken flat out in a modern F1 car, but it's right at that limit of grip at those speeds. So you can't really do it flat out if someone is next to you.

(I only know this from the F1 computer game by Code Masters)
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Old 07-22-2021, 11:39 AM   #2676
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Max would have been completely ahead at the exit though. Ham was on a tighter line, so his exit speed would have been much lower.
Max was also on a tighter then normal line. Had he left more space on the inside and carried a wider line would he have been ahead then?

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Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
It would be interesting to look at the lap to lap overlays from Hamilton and Verstappen (and other drivers as well). I watched Jolyon Palmer's analysis and, while I find his analyses generally really informative, in this case I'm not completely convinced. And that's where the overlays would be useful. I have the impression that Copse is taken flatout. My traditional brain tells me that a traditional widest arc line should be close to the fastest way through it. Palmer is suggesting that Lewis was habitually apexing the corner very, very early. That's going to put him way wide on the exit. I'm curious. I see that Silverstone is a track with multiple lines through many of the corners. It would be interesting to see which drivers would choose to take which lines.
Copse is flat out once tires are up to pressure/temp. Maybe the Merc and RB are doing it flat on lap 1, I don't know.

Here is an animation showing the crash with a ghost car of Max's Q3 line. I don't know where he got the data, and I don't agree with his "Ham was trying to back out" comment. This is the only driving line overlay I had seen.

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Old 07-24-2021, 12:49 AM   #2677
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Max was also on a tighter then normal line. Had he left more space on the inside and carried a wider line would he have been ahead then?
Max was on a wider line compared to Ham, so he would have had the faster exit speed. I mean, he was already pulling away at that point. The battle would have been over after that corner.
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Old 07-30-2021, 09:06 AM   #2678
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Michael Masi telling the story of the stewards' meeting with Red Bull on Thursday:

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Old 07-31-2021, 10:40 PM   #2679
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Anyone watching that qualifying out lap who still doesn't think lewis is willing to intentionally ram into someone at Copse is full of shit. What a grade A asshat.
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Old 08-01-2021, 12:03 AM   #2680
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Anyone watching that qualifying out lap who still doesn't think lewis is willing to intentionally ram into someone at Copse is full of shit. What a grade A asshat.
Yeah, Hamilton's a hoe. But people will defend him to the end of time because "GrEaTeSt oF aLl TiMe" or something.

I think it's pretty obvious that Hamilton missed the apex on Copse. Not by much, but enough to make all the difference which lead to major contact.

And what's funny is people try to act like a collision that sends Max into the wall at over 150mph half way through the first lap is somehow the same as Max rubbing tires with Hamilton on the entry of the first corner on the first lap of the race. Yes, Max has been aggressive, but every time he's done so, both cars were still driving and able to finish the race.
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Old 08-01-2021, 12:40 AM   #2681
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Anyone watching that qualifying out lap who still doesn't think lewis is willing to intentionally ram into someone at Copse is full of shit. What a grade A asshat.

That qualifying block of Perez should have been a blocking penalty. But when both drivers could have prevented a collision it is a racing incident. I don’t buy into the intentional shit. Even a minor touch at Copse can go bad for both cars.
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Old 08-01-2021, 05:24 AM   #2682
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Anyone who is calling the Max Ham incident intentional is someone ignoring all the facts and data.
How many other drivers and pros need to say both were to blame and it wasn't intentional for people to drop it. Even Max is sick of it.
Intentionally hitting someone at that corner is like committing suicide. You both may literally die.

As for Q3...
Scummy but legal. And that was on MERC not just Ham.
Bottas was in front and set the outlap pace.

edit:
Honestly I hope Max and Ham continue to race hard and keep taking each other out and we get Lando winning the drivers championship.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:34 AM   #2683
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Seriously, lashing out at Grosjean now??
https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-i-...main-grosjean/

It's getting to the point where even the WWE is unable to make their "heel" characters this unlikeable
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Old 08-01-2021, 09:10 AM   #2684
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They need to just admit it was intentional.
It's the game.

Speaking of WWE.

inb4 Bottas/MERC first lap was intentional conspiracy theories.
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Old 08-01-2021, 09:27 AM   #2685
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So Ham has the F1 gods on his side again, What a mess at the start.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:36 AM   #2686
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Still time for an engine blow.
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Old 08-01-2021, 02:16 PM   #2687
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Originally Posted by x808drifter View Post
Anyone who is calling the Max Ham incident intentional is someone ignoring all the facts and data.
How many other drivers and pros need to say both were to blame and it wasn't intentional for people to drop it. Even Max is sick of it.
Intentionally hitting someone at that corner is like committing suicide. You both may literally die.

As for Q3...
Scummy but legal. And that was on MERC not just Ham.
Bottas was in front and set the outlap pace.

edit:
Honestly I hope Max and Ham continue to race hard and keep taking each other out and we get Lando winning the drivers championship.
I know. Im just annoyed.
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Old 08-01-2021, 02:18 PM   #2688
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They need to just admit it was intentional.
It's the game.

Speaking of WWE.

inb4 Bottas/MERC first lap was intentional conspiracy theories.
No, Botas made a mistake. But then got a 5 grid place penalty for it.

I also enjoyed Hamilton's radio message complaining about Alonso defending at a fast corner.
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