Dyno Numbers

[Sasquachulator]

Hmm the dip is supposed to be alot more flat...wonder whats going on here?

This would also indicate to me that the dip wasnt "fixed" per se, but rather the car feels better because it makes a healthy 30lb/ft more torque than the outgoing car overall.

So the gen1 dip produces something like 120lb/ft and the gen2 dip is like 150lb/ft. And we know the gen1 car pulls pretty good with 150ish lb/ft at its peak (basically anywhere outside the dip)

[Baldeagle]

Isn’t the engine supposed to reach peak torque at 3,700 rpm? If yes, why did this one peak at 3,200 rpm? Is that significant enough to question these numbers?

[Sport-Tech]

zone of disappoint

LOTD right there...

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

How did you conclude about the correction factor?

Regarding E85/catless header, I think it will be on the menu as soon as DT/Xero/CSG and JDL/Tomei have something that are tested and robust kn the mrkt.

Edit: weird torque curve on the high rpm, probably due to escale used.

If you pause the video at the dyno read out they both show correction factors of 1.15.

[Dzmitry]

Not sure why the surprises are here. I guess the only surprise is that the torque dip looks bigger than they advertised, but it was still there.

In general the curve looks quite similar to gen1:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88696

You can see the big difference is that the dip has been shortened by a good bit, as it starts later (at least if you don't count the initial torque spike for a very brief time, and look at the torque curve as a flat line where most of it lies throughout the revs).

I also don't think you'll really be feeling this dip like many did in the first gen. You have to remember that in the first gen, the point in the dip simply felt flat in terms of acceleration. It didn't give you that peppy feeling in that range. The gen2 curve is well above all of this range, and even at the dip, the torque is well above the highest point of gen1 torque, so there is ALWAYS going to be that peppy feeling.

[ZDan]

I have to wonder if they might have had to reoptimize cam phasing to meet noise requirements?

Forrealz a bit disappointed if these are the real power/torque curves vs. what's been shown on the "info screen" graphic! Just a bit though. +20% displacement and same revs is still gonna give nice gains...

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Not sure why the surprises are here. I guess the only surprise is that the torque dip looks bigger than they advertised,

The surprise for me is exactly what you guess, it's WAY bigger than the dash graph or reviewers led me to think it would be. Some reviewers were dismissing it by saying it was more like a 5 lb/ft drop, when in reality it is around 27 lb/ft, or 15% of peak torque.

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

In general the curve looks quite similar to gen1:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88696

Yeah, I agree, but that sucks after we have been told over and over that the torque delivery is soooo much better this time.

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

You can see the big difference is that the dip has been shortened by a good bit, as it starts later (at least if you don't count the initial torque spike for a very brief time, and look at the torque curve as a flat line where most of it lies throughout the revs).

I also don't think you'll really be feeling this dip like many did in the first gen. You have to remember that in the first gen, the point in the dip simply felt flat in terms of acceleration. It didn't give you that peppy feeling in that range. The gen2 curve is well above all of this range, and even at the dip, the torque is well above the highest point of gen1 torque, so there is ALWAYS going to be that peppy feeling.

As much as I am surprised and I can't help being a *little* disappointed, it's not a deal breaker. I saw TH race the previous gen car with the new one and it was not close, the new one is much faster. And if the reviewers are to be believed at all then the new car feels better regardless of what the graph looks like.

Also, the aftermarket will have solutions for this pretty quick would be my guess, just like that thread you linked. I hope CSG is as involved with the new car as they were with the first gen.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by Pete

The surprise for me is exactly what you guess, it's WAY bigger than the dash graph or reviewers led me to think it would be. Some reviewers were dismissing it by saying it was more like a 5 lb/ft drop, when in reality it is around 27 lb/ft, or 15% of peak torque.

Yeah, something is a little interesting there, but I would be pretty certain that Toyota/Subaru aren't making up their power curve, much like the last. I think it comes down to the type of dyno, and the DynaPack will certainly read the biggest ups and downs in the torque curve compared to what we're used to seeing. My guess is the fact that this torque dip is smaller (not as broad over the rev range), is what makes it look small on a Dynojet for instance - because the curve is smoothed out, and with less time in the torque dip, the average values in the dip region will be higher, or less of a dip.

Purely my speculation, so we'll see. But what I'm basically trying to say is that the curves might still look much better on a more typical dyno like a Dynojet that we're used to seeing, and have a smaller torque dip.

EDIT: Also, it might answer the question for some of you who are wondering why the peaks are at different points than what is advertised. The DynaPack doesn't average out the values like some other dyno's, as I already mentioned, so you're seeing more accurate results in what the output is truly like. This is the case for many vehicles out there, we're just all so used to seeing smooth or nice curves, but that is never really the case. Also, I could be incorrect on this, but aren't peak values read at the engine, and not at the wheels, from the manufacturer? Hence why there may be such a difference in where the peaks lie as well?

[trippinbillies40]

I will say that butt dyno and driving experience is MUCH improved. Initial thought was "this feels very much, maybe even slightly better, like my first gen car with a nice EL header and tune". So remember that the major complaint on the first gen was more about how it feels to drive, and regardless of what this video of this dyno shows, seems like everyone is in agreement that the new car feels much better.

[Stonehorsw]

[Blighty]

So it begins!

Very excited.

Hub numbers seem a little higher than I was expecting - I run my 2012 (MT) on those and got 150hp. But perhaps that was just the Australian correction factor hehe.

[austintampa]

what is the possibility as load comes on the car is running lean and pulling back timing (ie maybe the car hasnt fully learned its fuel trims yet)?

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by austintampa

what is the possibility as load comes on the car is running lean and pulling back timing (ie maybe the car hasnt fully learned its fuel trims yet)?

Not very as there are two examples dyno videos and multiple runs. Plus oem tunes are way more likely to run rich and safe than lean.

[drift86]

I'm excited to see this torque dip. It tells me the car is still choked by the headers for emission reasons and that some catless headers + tune should make healthy gains just like the first gen.