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Old 08-17-2021, 10:36 PM   #15
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he said around $38k for the base model. but im reading it doesn't come with LSD.

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...a-400hp-z.415/

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Old 08-17-2021, 10:56 PM   #16
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It looks unfinished... by a lot.
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Old 08-18-2021, 12:11 AM   #17
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Somehow I think the side view of the car is the worst, middle third needs to go down an inch or so, currently looks... big, even though it's not actually that much bigger than the 86.
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Old 08-18-2021, 12:17 AM   #18
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Rati's pricing... I really want to see how much the performance pkg adds. I'm guessing added on with a few options 52-55k OTD.



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looks... big, even though it's not actually that much bigger than the 86.
Yet still looks smaller in the cabin. No way he'd be getting a helmet on in that car how he was sitting.
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Old 08-18-2021, 12:58 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
‘Around 40K’? That sure sounds like it’ll be more than 40K.

Anyone who thought this was gonna cost 35k is out of their mind.
If they had priced the car at $70k then would anyone who thought it was going to be $40-45k would be out of their mind, or would Nissan be out of their mind? Maybe in this case, Nissan jacked up the price because they think they could get it, but that isn't a necessarily a reflection of how cheap it could cost.

Also, how long have we been discussing the price of the next Z? Prices tend to creep up each year.

Could the base model of the 370z be less equipped than the base model of this next Z, such that it isn't an apples to apples comparison? The base 370Z was very basic: cloth, no LSD, smaller brakes, etc. Maybe this Z is closer to the Sport or Touring version of the 370Z. Maybe they will make a cheaper, base model in the future after this launch edition. Who knows?

Considering the price of the Q50/Q60, and considering how much of the new Z is borrowed from the old Z, it is entirely reasonable to conclude a refreshed car and a different engine would only be a $5k bump to $35k and not a $10k bump to $40k. Again, when considering an apples to apples comparison, $5k might still be accurate and not an "out of their mind" estimate.


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Doesn't sound like it when they say the base will be around $40K. The interior looks a lot better than before so they seem to be going more GT, like the Supra? Still cheaper than the Supra 2.0. Hopefully a variant comes with a better LSD than last time.
The interior is pretty similar. It'll be similar materials and similar build quality. It is a little bit more modern, as the 350Z/370Z was dated, but you can see the handles, vents, pedals and many things were carried over. The Z was always a GT car. The ZX was more premium, but this is more Z than ZX. The Supra is more premium. This is more of a value buy. More Camaro than Corvette.


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Old 08-18-2021, 02:29 AM   #20
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Production Z vs Z Proto Visual Comparison

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...omparison.428/


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Old 08-18-2021, 08:30 AM   #21
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If you have to step up to the Performance Trim in order to get the LSD and larger brakes, I'm gonna be somewhat annoyed. I hate leather seats and definitely don't want any of that extra luxury junk.
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Old 08-18-2021, 09:14 AM   #22
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The latest photos of the Z look better to me than it initially did. The styling seems more subtle, curvaceous, sinuous, and in general, very appealing. It has a timeless aspect to it, less contrived than the previous 370Z (and without over-wrought styling gimmicks like atomic rocket bunny exaggerated side sills or goiter-size rear lip).

It's almost certainly the last "Z" sports car Nissan will build (at least one that's a true, internal combustion, manual transmission car and not some Ford Mach-E Mustang SUV abomination usurping the name), and a fitting one to the heritage.

I especially like that they will offer some color in the interior. The shots slathered in blue are fun, as well as the limited 'Proto' edition yellow. Almost all car interiors these days are just uniform seas of black on black trimmed in black with black accents. It's like descending into a deep, dark cave. I know it's a lot cheaper to adopt Henry Ford's policy on the original Model T ("You can have it in any color as long as it's black"), and all the money saved by offering only a single color. But, really?!?! A sports car is supposed to be light-hearted and fun. Colors go a long way (don't get me started on the 26 exterior shades of gray and silver instead of bright, saturated, primary colors). It gets tiring looking at the same old same old endless black interiors everywhere. I'd pay extra for some color inside (FWIW, I just traded in my WRX daily driver for a Kia Stinger, and the availability of a maroon red interior was a non-trivial factor).

Depending on the pricing of the Z, it could well give the BRZ/86 some serious competition, IF the price is in a range buyers consider 'comparable'. I'd guess that if the Z starts within $5,000 of the BRZ/86, it would sway a lot of people. But it's hard to see how Nissan would offer a starting price at less than $40k-ish, which would stratify nicely with the less expensive BRZ/86.

Regardless of what one thinks of the Z, the world of car enthusiasts is very lucky that both the new Z, and the second generation BRZ/86, are being built. The sports car segment has been shrinking for some time as people migrate in lemming-like droves to SUV/CUV boxes. Add to that the inexorable and somewhat forced drive (pun intended) into the bland, soulless, devoid of all passion electric car + autonomous transportation pod future, we should be thankful that Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota are building these cars. It's Fin de Siecle, the waning last days of internal combustion sports cars, affordably priced, and especially with thank-you-automotive-gods manual transmissions, and we should appreciate and enjoy them while we can. Once they're gone, they won't be back.

Pay your money and take your choices, among some of the last but very sweet machines being offered.
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Old 08-18-2021, 09:52 AM   #23
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Just to add to myself:

The new Z is not a Supra in many ways like I mentioned. The Supra is more up market. The Supra may have a build quality and refinements that economy car buyers may not value, which is why it is for premium car buyers. The Supra has an underrated powertrain.

The Z is the Japanese pony car. As such, expect it to feel like a powerful car in cheap clothes. The platform will be great for tuning, but from the factory, we are talking 400hp, which is less than the Mustang at 460hp or the Camaro at 455hp, and they start around $36k for the base GT and $35k for the LT1. The outgoing Z was $30-31k for the base model, undercutting the competitors with price and weight, but also power at 332hp. Expect weight to be up from the 370Z from adding twin turbochargers and heat exchangers, but I don’t think the Z can successfully move too far up in price. It may initially, and then they may dial it back. They may try to get in on dealer markups by just raising the price, knowing dealers will try to cash in. Might as well take a bigger piece too, but I don’t think the Z has much wiggle room to jump up $8 or $10k from where it was priced previously from just an engine upgrade and refreshed design alone. They would need to at least start with a trim level above their base, offering at least a LSD, premium sound, technology, bigger brakes, better tires, etc. Might as well. Then dial it back after the hype dies down. If they don’t do that then I could see many reviewers making the comment, “With an all knew engine and an all new design, is the $8-10k price increase over the outgoing model worth trading up? Stay tuned to find out.”
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Old 08-18-2021, 10:26 AM   #24
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Another factor is the pandemic-related supply chain disruptions affecting all cars. Supplies of all cars are dramatically reduced compared to typical levels. Most dealers have almost no new cars to sell (my local Subaru dealer has exactly zero new Subarus on their lot; it's all used cars). The Kia dealer where I bought a Stinger typically has 100-150 new cars, right now they have a total of 5. I can't imagine this won't also impact both the Z and BRZ/86. If supplies of those cars are limited, combined with the money burning a hole in people's pockets buying frenzy out there, rapacious dealer mark-ups may be likely for some time.

Just look at the crazy ADM's dealers are getting for the few more pedestrian cars available. Now imagine what it might be for a sought after new car like the Z (or BRZ/86).

I'm very much looking forward to driving both cars. But I think any possible buying will wait until the next model year, when production lines hopefully are cranking out more cars and the initial frenzy has cooled down.
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Old 08-18-2021, 10:49 AM   #25
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https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...ssis-code-z34/

"we asked a Nissan executive if the new twin-turbocharged sports coupe's chassis carries the Z35 chassis code. We were simply told "no." You read that right: by Nissan's own internal standards, the changes made to the latest Z are not significant enough to warrant a new chassis designation. The 2023 Z chassis is not internally known as the Z35, and it instead maintains the Z34 chassis code of the 370Z."

During the presentation, they didn't talk about anything other than "tuning" the car. Most of the car is likely carry-forward then, other than changes they had to make for crash, technology, etc.

Much of the cost increase likely comes from the engine being more complex. The 3.7 was found in everything and paid off a long time ago.

The TT3.0 is lower volume and more advanced.

So $40K with 18" AS tires and no LSD and a more bare interior.
+ $5K for a sport package with LSD and 19" wheels and tires.
+ $5K for the leather on the dash, bigger screen, nicer seats, etc.
+ $5~10K for the Nismo with forged wheels, adjustable suspension, new seats, more boost, etc. Probably $60K or more when all done up.

All in, you are looking at Supra pricing as both cars will be $50K fully loaded - dealers will negotiate the Supra price down.
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Old 08-18-2021, 11:07 AM   #26
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So Sport, Performance and Proto trims.

Previous gen offered a base trim, Sport, Sport Touring and NISMO.

https://www.nissanusa.com/content/da...rochure-en.pdf

The Sport trim on the 370Z added many features that RR showcased on the Performance trim including a larger set of brakes, forged Rays wheels, LSD, sport exhaust, aero bits, Bose, etc., and some stuff from the Sport Touring trim like the larger screen, leather seats, etc. The new carbon fiber driveshaft is an add-on. The Performance trim seems like the Sport Touring trim of the previous gen, which was around $39-40k. RR said confusingly that the car would start at $38k, and you can add or subtract from there. Did he mean this Performance model would start at $38k and the Sport would be cheaper? That seems realistic.

I bet the Sport will have less features than the old Sport model, but more features than the base 370Z. I’m expecting LSD and optional carbon fiber driveshaft on all trims. Sport would have a basic stereo system, cloth interior, basic manual adjusting seats, basic brakes, no spoiler or front lip, no sport exhaust, strut bar (looks adjustable BTW), cast aluminum wheels, basic sport tires, smaller infotainment screen, etc. Spoiler and front lip could be dealer add-ons. Two-toned paint is optional at a premium maybe. Stuff like that. Might have a technology package. Might have a sports package. I’m guessing the Sport trim will start around $35k. The Performance will be $38-40k and the Proto will be a launch edition with special coloring, badging and maybe a few extra bits priced around $43k. I think a NISMO edition is a few years away after they milk the hype.
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Old 08-18-2021, 11:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogMan View Post
Another factor is the pandemic-related supply chain disruptions affecting all cars. Supplies of all cars are dramatically reduced compared to typical levels. Most dealers have almost no new cars to sell (my local Subaru dealer has exactly zero new Subarus on their lot; it's all used cars). The Kia dealer where I bought a Stinger typically has 100-150 new cars, right now they have a total of 5. I can't imagine this won't also impact both the Z and BRZ/86. If supplies of those cars are limited, combined with the money burning a hole in people's pockets buying frenzy out there, rapacious dealer mark-ups may be likely for some time.

Just look at the crazy ADM's dealers are getting for the few more pedestrian cars available. Now imagine what it might be for a sought after new car like the Z (or BRZ/86).

I'm very much looking forward to driving both cars. But I think any possible buying will wait until the next model year, when production lines hopefully are cranking out more cars and the initial frenzy has cooled down.
I wouldn't be surprised if supply chain setbacks lead to price increases, but maybe not. Has that happened? Also, this is a 2023 model, slated to come out sometime in 2022. The GR86 will be in late 2021 to early 2022, so I would expect the Z to be mid to late 2022 to early 2023, which means there is more time to get the car ready for production. Definitely worth waiting until the frenzy and dealer markups cool down.
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Old 08-18-2021, 11:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazeroni View Post
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...ssis-code-z34/

"we asked a Nissan executive if the new twin-turbocharged sports coupe's chassis carries the Z35 chassis code. We were simply told "no." You read that right: by Nissan's own internal standards, the changes made to the latest Z are not significant enough to warrant a new chassis designation. The 2023 Z chassis is not internally known as the Z35, and it instead maintains the Z34 chassis code of the 370Z."

During the presentation, they didn't talk about anything other than "tuning" the car. Most of the car is likely carry-forward then, other than changes they had to make for crash, technology, etc.

Much of the cost increase likely comes from the engine being more complex. The 3.7 was found in everything and paid off a long time ago.

The TT3.0 is lower volume and more advanced.

So $40K with 18" AS tires and no LSD and a more bare interior.
+ $5K for a sport package with LSD and 19" wheels and tires.
+ $5K for the leather on the dash, bigger screen, nicer seats, etc.
+ $5~10K for the Nismo with forged wheels, adjustable suspension, new seats, more boost, etc. Probably $60K or more when all done up.

All in, you are looking at Supra pricing as both cars will be $50K fully loaded - dealers will negotiate the Supra price down.
Well, the 3.7 was a displacement bump over the 3.5 VQ, and the VR is essentially a turbo version of the VQ, which dates back to the VR38 in the 2007 GTR. The VR30 with direct injection and turbos dates back to 2016, but it is in far less cars than the VQ, which was shared across Nissan and Infiniti vehicles. In some ways, it is a carry over. In some ways it is new, but expect the VR30 to replace a lot of VQ engines when new models are released like the upcoming QX60. These will probably be the preferred engines with base models starting around 300hp and upper trims being 400hp and 450hp+ hybrids, losing the 5.6L V8.

All this means that the VR is not that special. It is just another engine. I wouldn't expect a giant price increase in an engine going through its evolution.

Check out RR review above and my trim breakdown, and I think you will change your pricing. For instance, the outgoing Sport trim on the 370Z had LSD, larger brakes, forged Rays rims, sport tires, etc and was sub $35k.
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