New BRZ vs Z

[Lelandjt]

We're not gonna get any more solid details about either car for a while so this is a hypothetical discussion to kill a few months. I love the weight of the BRZ and when not romping on it the efficiency of the NA 4-pot is appealing. In the 90s I could live with the idea of an adequately powered car but it's a quarter century later and every other vehicle makes crazy power. This will be my last ICE sports car and the appeal of 400hp for only another $5k has me considering the Z. It sounds like there will be a 300lb difference between them. Anyone else choosing between these two? With a couple grand budget and little concern for comfort or aesthetics that weight could be reduced (same could be said for the BRZ). Is the Z gonna feel like a boat even after some dieting? Is the BRZ gonna have enough torque to not feel inadequate when exiting a corner in 3rd? When cruising will the Z's engine be a relative fuel hog or will modern tech make it capable of 30+mpg? I've got until May 2022 to hem, haw, and argue over this.

[PulsarBeeerz]

There's no car to test drive so who's to say. The weight different will be around near 500lb btw, the 370z is already 400lb+ heavier than the 2022 BRZ. The 400Z is just the old 370z chassis with FI so it won't be lighter. Really both cars are just subtle refinements of the previous car with a bit more power. So if you can figure out what you like about the old cars apply to the new ones I guess?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

the appeal of 400hp for only another $5k has me considering the Z.

5k? No way. Not apples-to-apples with both cars having an LSD.

It sounds like there will be a 300lb difference between them

Make that 5-600. Nissan is quoting dry weight for now. Zs are heavy, they have been for decades.

Is the Z gonna feel like a boat even after some dieting?

What diet? This thing won't be lighter than a 370Z. It likely will handle like a 370Z, considering it's the same chassis. That means it'll be fast, but it won't handle as well at the limit as the GR86/BRZ.

When cruising will the Z's engine be a relative fuel hog

Yes

will modern tech make it capable of 30+mpg

No, even the GR86/BRZ (manual) will struggle to do that.

The Z will be faster, the 86 will be the better driver's car, just like last gen. Both cars are a mild refresh of the old chassis with a new engine, so the points made in this video will still stand:

[Lantanafrs2]

I imagine Nissan will be pushing these things with predatory lending along with all their other products with many of them on a tow bar at 2 am. The gift that keeps on giving.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Lelandjt

We're not gonna get any more solid details about either car for a while so this is a hypothetical discussion to kill a few months....

I'm looking at the same scenario. A major decider for me will be which of the two does a better job of addressing the current model's weak points - IMO the engine on the twins, and the handling near the limit, the IP, and the seats for the Z. The twin-turbo 6 Nissan is taking from Infiniti is widely praised, should be a good fit in the Z. Love the looks too except for that front grill, like the GR86's it seems too square.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

I'm looking at the same scenario.

Ditto for me. I suspect this next car might be my last with a manual transmission (thanks to creeping arthritis). I have the same questions and thoughts; lighter and more flingable BRZ/86 with a N/A engine, vs. a much more torquey and faster Z.

Given my street/highway driving uses, I suspect I'll like the Z better - except for the turbo motor. As impressive as it is on paper, I still always prefer a good N/A engine.

I think the Z is going to sell well. We're all going to have to wait for reviews and personal road tests, but it seems to address the things people found wanting in the 370Z while keeping the basic goodness. It keeps the robust, stiff, still relevant and competitive chassis, but updates the body styling to something more svelte and even approaching classically beautiful, while updating the interior that was probably the biggest weakness of the 370Z. As a bonus they're also updating the motor to a more efficient and powerful mill, one that will likely be readily amenable to even further aftermarket power boosts. What's not to like?

I agree that it will probably be more than a $5k price spread vs. the BRZ/86, especially when factoring in the inevitable ADMs and other games Nissan dealers will play. It will probably be north of a $10k price difference, but probably well worth it for a car that's in a whole different league.

I hate to say it, but for me the buying and dealer experience might be the deciding factor. 3 years ago I started out with the intention to buy a 370Z. But, as I've ranted about at length in other posts, after a year of trying and going to 6 different Nissan dealers, I was completely disgusted with their sleazy sales tactics. I just couldn't find the car I wanted from a dealer willing to put aside slimy games and just sell a car for a reasonable price. Nissan sleaziness was what drove me into Subaru's arms.

I think it's going to be even worse with the new Z. The 370Z was a car few people wanted a couple of years ago, and Nissan dealers still couldn't resist playing dirty. I think there's going to be a feeding frenzy over the new Z. I can already hear the drool dripping from Nissan salespeople's mouths at the thought of how they'll be fleecing the gotta-have-it early buyers.

Given how rampant the filth and grime I encountered was among all the Nissan dealers, I suspected it was condoned if not outright encouraged by Nissan USA corporate. Seeing the latest scummy move to come from them, with the 8 year predatory financing loan cons, confirms my suspicions. I don't think I'll need a crystal ball to foresee how this is going to turn out: liking the Z, visiting several Nissan dealers and then having to powerwash the filth off myself afterwards, and then ending up back at a Subaru dealer.

I never imagined that the dealer experience could sway my decision for which car to buy, but there you have it.

[TommyW]

Well that much weight difference is night and day handling wise. The guys that prioritize straight line speed will buy the Z. The guys that prioritize the driving dynamics will buy the 86.

[blackhawkdown]

Lets be honest here.

As much as I love a NA and a manual transmission, those days are over, it’s going to be extinct soon. We got to stop living in nostalgia.

Once you drive the 400hp Z, are you really going to choose a +200hp NA? It’s not going to happen. I love my RSX-S 200hp 8k RPM 6spd sonofbitch but it’s not even close to my Supra.

Will the twins be a more drivers car than the Z? Yes! Do you drive your twins to the limit 100% of the time on the street? More like 0% on the street. Same with the Z, normal every day enthusiast will not drive the Z to the limits on the street. Thats why even with the same old trash chassis, the new Z will be a god sports car for the masses.

If you think the Z will have great interior, you better think again. It’s just a rehash interior.

How do you think nissan is able to sell you a 400hp Z for $35k MSRP? It’s a reskin 370z with Q50 engine and it continues to use a maxima chassis. Why does the Supra cost $20k more? The chassis is specifically designed for a sports car. The interior is premium. My point is you get what you paid for.

The twins in the other hand, will be a great car. Do you ever wonder why people don’t stick with the twins for too long? It needs more power and by adding force induction, reliability is out the door. You can buy a Reliable Z with the cost of adding a turbo/supercharger kit to the twins.

If you want power get the Z if it’s in your budget. If you want to live in nostalgia about NA and a manual car, get the twins.


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[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Well that much weight difference is night and day handling wise. The guys that prioritize straight line speed will buy the Z. The guys that prioritize the driving dynamics will buy the 86.

It may be a different type of driving dynamics but that doesn't mean the handling can't be impressive at that weight. There are other sports cars in that weight class with widely acclaimed handling, 911s for example. The key question is: how much of that can Nissan deliver at a lower price point?

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

If you want power get the Z if it’s in your budget. If you want to live in nostalgia about NA and a manual car, get the twins.

Driving context also influences this choice for some of us. Do you have ready access to winding roads, or are you limited to driving a grid? If I lived in a twisty-road environment it would heavily push me towards the new twins.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

It may be a different type of driving dynamics but that doesn't mean the handling can't be impressive at that weight. There are other sports cars in that weight class with widely acclaimed handling, 911s for example. The key question is: how much of that can Nissan deliver at a lower price point?

A stock 911 is soft. Great GT though.

[nextcar]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

I never imagined that the dealer experience could sway my decision for which car to buy, but there you have it.

I have to say my experience matches yours... Although I loved my 280Z, the last time I owned a Nissan the dealerships were soooooo bad that I have never seriously considered another Nissan. Add that to the reliability and fit/finish of my last Nissan experience, and as much as I like the looks of the new Z I don't think I could buy one.

[DarkSideFRS]

New BRZ looks like a$$, the new Z looks sweet.

400 hp vs 228? Not even close in terms of performance. I would get the Z any day over the new BRZ. BRZ/86 fanboys will keep arguing that their cars are the best thing that ever happened to them, but this platform is so underpowered and unreliable

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by DarkSideFRS

New BRZ looks like a$$, the new Z looks sweet.

400 hp vs 228? Not even close in terms of performance. I would get the Z any day over the new BRZ. BRZ/86 fanboys will keep arguing that their cars are the best thing that ever happened to them, but this platform is so underpowered and unreliable

well I’ve owned so many cars. 911 twin turbo to Miata and my sorted FRS is my favorite overall for my needs. it’s not always about the power. If it was we’d revel a AA fuel dragster as the ultimate.