New BRZ vs Z

[Pete]

Originally Posted by stilesg57

Looking at a used M240i 6MT next week

Yep, I was looking at one of those also! I have not driven one though. Used prices are crazy right now, but a good quality m240 might be worth the budget stretch if you have the dough. I'd look hard at new vs used value.

In theory the B58 will be more reliable than the N55, but I'd still want some warranty left or a CPO. My in laws have had nothing but problems with their 335i.

Let me know what you think about the m240.

edit afterthought: The Edelbrock supercharger kit was not on the market years ago when I boosted my '13 FRS, but it looks very good. I'm hoping Edelbrock adapts the kit for the new cars, because if I do FI again, that's the one.

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by Pete

Yep, I was looking at one of those also! I have not driven one though. Used prices are crazy right now, but a good quality m240 might be worth the budget stretch if you have the dough. I'd look hard at new vs used value.

In theory the B58 will be more reliable than the N55, but I'd still want some warranty left or a CPO. My in laws have had nothing but problems with their 335i.

Let me know what you think about the m240.

edit afterthought: The Edelbrock supercharger kit was not on the market years ago when I boosted my '13 FRS, but it looks very good. I'm hoping Edelbrock adapts the kit for the new cars, because if I do FI again, that's the one.

My friend has a M240i I’ve driven quite a bit. Also, I drive a B58 powered car. They are fast, seem decently reliable, and come as a stick. Steering is pretty numb and car feels fairy heavy (as it is quite heavy) but has good balance and much better suspension tuning than a F30 3 series. Turns in well and will oversteer on exit without lighting up the inside wheel. Shifter is rubbery and throws are longish so not great, but it is still a decent manual. Excellent daily drivers though. Tons of low down torque, about 25-27mpg and quite practical.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by stilesg57

Dude I’ve been pretty open about the fact that I’m cross-shopping exactly two cars: a new Mustang or a new BRZ. No “intentional misrepresentation” going on here. I’m not setting up a straw man to knock down for the dopamine hit that is purchase-justification psychology. I have no problem pointing out the issues with each: the Mustang is expensive with pricey performance options for what it is and needs suspension work out of the box, while the BRZ is STILL painfully underpowered as a performance vehicle.

I don’t find the value in the perf package because I think the springs/rates and damper upgrades are weak, I hate the look and weight of the black PP wheels, and I don’t need a bigger radiator as the stock GT one is fine if you aren’t tracking it for hours on end in Phoenix. All I value in that package — beyond more than the change in my couch — are the brakes and the diff.

So yeah, I’m a little annoyed that I have to add an insane $6,500 option to the cost of the car to get those things and that’s the ONLY way to get them from the factory. Hence why I mentioned missing the old tiered packages.

I’m either getting a Mustang that’s significantly more expensive and/or needs a trip to the Steeda catalog or a BRZ that needs a warranty-killing $5k supercharger for it to still not feel half as sweet under my right foot as that glorious Coyote. Nothing disingenuous about pointing out all the nuances of this choice.

So buy a non-PP car and add a diff after the fact and save $4500? There are a ton of options for Mustangs, and since it's not an axle anymore, you can just swap the pumpkin in your garage in an afternoon.

But if you aren't tracking the car, why are you that concerned with the diff? Just something to complain about online?

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

So buy a non-PP car and add a diff after the fact and save $4500? There are a ton of options for Mustangs, and since it's not an axle anymore, you can just swap the pumpkin in your garage in an afternoon.

But if you aren't tracking the car, why are you that concerned with the diff? Just something to complain about online?

Yea I'd do that haha. Swapping a pumpkin in a S550 isn't the easiest but I definitely would do it.

[stilesg57]

In fairness I do love complaining lately — trying to buy a car in this market will do that to you

I want a helical lsd because
1) I will track it a couple times a year spring & fall;
2) it does affect spirited street driving;
3) better traction in the winter while driving to work; and
4) better traction off the line, which really matters when you start getting over ~250wtq

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by stilesg57

In fairness I do love complaining lately — trying to buy a car in this market will do that to you

I want a helical lsd because
1) I will track it a couple times a year spring & fall;
2) it does affect spirited street driving;
3) better traction in the winter while driving to work; and
4) better traction off the line, which really matters when you start getting over ~250wtq

1. Clutch diff still works better.
2. If you're driving fast enough on the street to actually notice a diff, take it to the track and stop being a jerk on the street.
3. How so? A torsen/wavetrac, etc only work when both wheels have traction, do you know the difference between a torsen and a clutch diff and how they operate? They stop working completely when one wheel doesn't haven't traction, unlike a clutch diff.
4. Again, how so?

I know I'm coming off like a jerk, but it doesn't sound like you actually understand how the different types of differentials work.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Kona61

Yea I'd do that haha. Swapping a pumpkin in a S550 isn't the easiest but I definitely would do it.

Never tried! My Track Pack mustang GT was still the stick axle.

I know in E30s, the top bolts were such huge pains in the ass, many of us would drill holes in the trunk to make it easier to get to them.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by stilesg57

In fairness I do love complaining lately — trying to buy a car in this market will do that to you
I want a helical lsd because
1) I will track it a couple times a year spring & fall;
2) it does affect spirited street driving;
3) better traction in the winter while driving to work; and
4) better traction off the line, which really matters when you start getting over ~250wtq

T2R Torsen from Ford Motorsport is ~$750 or so.
https://www.lethalperformance.com/fo...ferential.html

I'd rather have a ramped clutch-type tho...

[stilesg57]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

1. Clutch diff still works better.
2. If you're driving fast enough on the street to actually notice a diff, take it to the track and stop being a jerk on the street.
3. How so? A torsen/wavetrac, etc only work when both wheels have traction, do you know the difference between a torsen and a clutch diff and how they operate? They stop working completely when one wheel doesn't haven't traction, unlike a clutch diff.
4. Again, how so?

I know I'm coming off like a jerk, but it doesn't sound like you actually understand how the different types of differentials work.

1) Not after it wears out, and 5 mins on the Mustang forums will tell you just how fast the stock unit is known to do that. Couple years at most. I want a set-it-and-forget-it diff solution, not another wear item.

2) You definitely don’t have to be driving fast to want to put tq down in corners My collision and moving violation records speak for themselves as to my driving behavior (that would be none, and none in 18yrs). You can skip the keyboard court judgement thank you.

3) I’m not an engineer and I work around enough of them to know when I’m out of my depth, but as I understand the torsen-style diff as long as there is some traction at both wheels it will send more tq to the one with more traction. So if one wheel is in the air, sure, it’s an expensive open diff, but I won’t ever experience that in the winter. So as long as it’s just struggling through a start on an irregular snowy/slushy patch at a stop sign, I’ll get more tq towards the wheel with better traction and therefore it’ll be easier to daily drive. This is my real world experience with Quaifes in Bimmers; they definitely feel easier to get off the line in reduced traction and snow. Plus you don’t get a locked rearend after a couple rotations and slide sideways as easily. I don’t think I’m missing anything here.

4) Same as above, but everyday road conditions rather than just winter ones. I get that a clutch-based would probably be better here on takeoffs but still not necessarily in turns where it’ll basically be open, and again I don’t want the wear item if I can avoid it. There’s a reason the base Mustang comes with a clutch and the Perf Pkg comes with a torsen.

I’m not saying there’s no place for a clutch-style LSD, just that given my reluctance to add a maintenance item and use-case of street and very light track use, a helical LSD is what I want. I’m pretty confident this isn’t a misunderstanding of the different options?