2013 Scion FR-S cranks but no start!!!

[Btborja]

Originally Posted by steve99

The car need a manifold pressure drop detected to start. look at manifood pressure when ignition on it should bead 14 psi or 1 bar or 100kpa, when cranking this should drop. if itdoesnt car wont start, if map sensor manifold pressure is bad or not stock it wont start.


check the di computer on side of engine has all three mount bolts in and tight or won't start or run or run badly.


Im assuming your runnog stock tune and engine jas stock injectors and map sensor fitted.


Also try unpligging the Mass air flow sensor this is the on on intake near air filter ( not the map sensor on intake manifold) with maf sensor unplugged see if engine starts. unplugging tgis sensor forces the ecu into a very basic limp mode.

So i tried unplugging maf sensor, got nothing. The ecu is well grounded. How do I check map sensor pressure? I’ve looked at a few ways to do it. Wasn’t sure if there was specific way on these cars. Once again one thing I get when cranking engine is it’ll backfire. I’m assuming maybe cause there being fuel and spark but car not starting

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Btborja

So i tried unplugging maf sensor, got nothing. The ecu is well grounded. How do I check map sensor pressure? I’ve looked at a few ways to do it. Wasn’t sure if there was specific way on these cars. Once again one thing I get when cranking engine is it’ll backfire. I’m assuming maybe cause there being fuel and spark but car not starting

This really sounds like a timing issue when you’re getting backfire (through the intake?), like when a carbureted engine shoots flames out the carburetor when the timing is off by 360 degrees.

Are you certain that you have the coil packs wired correctly on each side of the engine and not have them reversed? You can swap the connectors between each set of coils on each side to test this.

[Btborja]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

This really sounds like a timing issue when you’re getting backfire (through the intake?), like when a carbureted engine shoots flames out the carburetor when the timing is off by 360 degrees.

Are you certain that you have the coil packs wired correctly on each side of the engine and not have them reversed? You can swap the connectors between each set of coils on each side to test this.

Right! It does sound out of time but it’s all timed correctly followed the guide I mentioned. All my timing marks align correctly. I spun crank a bunch of times and my marks always align correctly never got off. As far as the coil packs I can try to swap them around but it seems the way my wiring harness comes down it’s almost not possible to put them
In the wrong spot hahah anyways when I checked for spark I checked each coil pack and spark plug. Every single one of them was sparking when cranked and had metal touching it. Unless there’s a such thing as weak spark? I’m not sure at this rate

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Btborja

Right! It does sound out of time but it’s all timed correctly followed the guide I mentioned. All my timing marks align correctly. I spun crank a bunch of times and my marks always align correctly never got off. As far as the coil packs I can try to swap them around but it seems the way my wiring harness comes down it’s almost not possible to put them
In the wrong spot hahah anyways when I checked for spark I checked each coil pack and spark plug. Every single one of them was sparking when cranked and had metal touching it. Unless there’s a such thing as weak spark? I’m not sure at this rate

Okay we’re going to figure this out, but first let’s back up a bit. Answer these questions for me:

You said you purchased this ‘13 FR-S. Are you the original owner from day one, or did you purchase it used from a dealer, auction, wrecking yard, private seller, etc.? Please specify where.

[Btborja]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Okay we’re going to figure this out, but first let’s back up a bit. Answer these questions for me:

You said you purchased this ‘13 FR-S. Are you the original owner from day one, or did you purchase it used from a dealer, auction, wrecking yard, private seller, etc.? Please specify where.

I bought the car from a girl I was seeing. The car spun a bearing (I have experience building engines) I’ve built k series Honda, vq35de and various other imports). When I disassembled engine the bearing scarred up crank so bad I ordered new crankshaft, bearings, head studs, gaskets, and etc. machine shop checked block and pistons for me. I assembled engine etc etc. compression tested engine and everything turned up good. Car throws no codes. It cranks strong sounds like it’s about to start but never does

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Btborja

I bought the car from a girl I was seeing. The car spun a bearing (I have experience building engines) I’ve built k series Honda, vq35de and various other imports). When I disassembled engine the bearing scarred up crank so bad I ordered new crankshaft, bearings, head studs, gaskets, and etc. machine shop checked block and pistons for me. I assembled engine etc etc. compression tested engine and everything turned up good. Car throws no codes. It cranks strong sounds like it’s about to start but never does

I'm not doubting your skills at engine building or anything like that, I'm just trying to gather some information, and sometimes you have to think outside of the box. It's what I do in order to solve problems. No extraneous answers needed. Just bear with me for a bit.

You bought it from someone that you knew, got it. Did you ever get to drive it or ride in it while she owned it?

Were you the one that was driving it when the engine spun the bearing, or was she the one, or did you purchase the car from her as a project because it wasn't running?

And not meaning to get personal here, (remember I'm just gathering information) are you and her still seeing each other and if not, are you two still on good terms?

[Btborja]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

I'm not doubting your skills at engine building or anything like that, I'm just trying to gather some information, and sometimes you have to think outside of the box. It's what I do in order to solve problems. No extraneous answers needed. Just bear with me for a bit.

You bought it from someone that you knew, got it. Did you ever get to drive it or ride in it while she owned it?

Were you the one that was driving it when the engine spun the bearing, or was she the one, or did you purchase the car from her as a project because it wasn't running?

And not meaning to get personal here, (remember I'm just gathering information) are you and her still seeing each other and if not, are you two still on good terms?

Of course man! Just giving you some background on myself! Haha but yes the car was regularly maintained. I’ve rode with her few times the car was daily. Mainly highway miles. Car wasn’t dogged out. She got an oil change and then she was driving car started knocking and it was towed to dealership. They started it snd it was knocking told her needed engine replaced. Was out of her budget I then acquired car from her. Before this the car ran very good never had any issues that anyone was aware of. We are still on good terms

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Btborja

So i tried unplugging maf sensor, got nothing. The ecu is well grounded. How do I check map sensor pressure? I’ve looked at a few ways to do it. Wasn’t sure if there was specific way on these cars. Once again one thing I get when cranking engine is it’ll backfire. I’m assuming maybe cause there being fuel and spark but car not starting

ok posdibly somthing mechanicall then

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Btborja

Of course man! Just giving you some background on myself! Haha but yes the car was regularly maintained. I’ve rode with her few times the car was daily. Mainly highway miles. Car wasn’t dogged out. She got an oil change and then she was driving car started knocking and it was towed to dealership. They started it snd it was knocking told her needed engine replaced. Was out of her budget I then acquired car from her. Before this the car ran very good never had any issues that anyone was aware of. We are still on good terms

Okay, so we can safely say that it was completely stock when the engine developed the knock and that it did not have any modifications made to it, and then returned to stock before it was sold to you and that it does not have an aftermarket tune, and it wasn’t sold to you by a jaded ex-girlfriend who decided to sabotage the fuel system before selling her car to you, and who doesn’t also have a new beau who hates you who may have decided to sabotage it himself knowing that be can never be half the man her ex was. Got it.

How long was the car sitting before you finally got it up and ready to start? Just thinking that possibly your fuel may have gone bad or has been contaminated or maybe something has plugged up the injectors.

Are you sure you have the fuel lines connected in the engine bay properly (you don’t have the return line connected to the supply line and vice versa)? Perhaps it’s time for you to figure out how to start posting pictures here to give us some references to look at.

[Btborja]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Okay, so we can safely say that it was completely stock when the engine developed the knock and that it did not have any modifications made to it, and then returned to stock before it was sold to you and that it does not have an aftermarket tune, and it wasn’t sold to you by a jaded ex-girlfriend who decided to sabotage the fuel system before selling her car to you, and who doesn’t also have a new beau who hates you who may have decided to sabotage it himself knowing that be can never be half the man her ex was. Got it.

How long was the car sitting before you finally got it up and ready to start? Just thinking that possibly your fuel may have gone bad or has been contaminated or maybe something has plugged up the injectors.

Are you sure you have the fuel lines connected in the engine bay properly (you don’t have the return line connected to the supply line and vice versa)? Perhaps it’s time for you to figure out how to start posting pictures here to give us some references to look at.

Hahaha yeah this car has never seen a tune for sure! She’s original owner too! See I thought that possibly the fuel could be bad but wasn’t sure. It’s sat for 4 months, but I did add like 2 gallons of fuel. Had a quarter tank in it. Is it possible fuel could be bad? I thought it was possible they were backwards but after looking at many pictures of other engine bays and pictures I took of mine before disassemble. It’s all been installed correctly

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Btborja

Hahaha yeah this car has never seen a tune for sure! She’s original owner too! See I thought that possibly the fuel could be bad but wasn’t sure. It’s sat for 4 months, but I did add like 2 gallons of fuel. Had a quarter tank in it. Is it possible fuel could be bad? I thought it was possible they were backwards but after looking at many pictures of other engine bays and pictures I took of mine before disassemble. It’s all been installed correctly

Okay, so fuel lines are correct but you're not sure if the fuel that was in the tank was still good. Normally, four months would be okay as long as your tank and lines were sealed and slightly pressurized so that air cannot infiltrate into the system and the fuel can't evaporate out.

This is a stupid question: Did you prime the pump before trying to crank the engine?

Here's my suggestion before you go any further: Disconnect your supply line in the engine bay and pump out what you can into a fuel container and set that aside. Then add a few gallons of fresh premium fuel, prime the pump by turning the key to the ON position then back to OFF about 10 times and then try starting again.

Did you ever try swapping the low voltage sides of your ignition coils?

How about your injector connectors, could they be accidentally swapped causing them to inject at the incorrect times?

What gets me is that when you try spraying starting fluid in the intake, it doesn't even fire then, and you say you have good compression. If you have fuel, air, compression and spark then you should get an explosion. That's the four main requirements right there. It still sounds to me like your ignition timing is off as If you're firing on the exhaust stroke.

[Grady]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

What gets me is that when you try spraying starting fluid in the intake, it doesn't even fire then, and you say you have good compression. If you have fuel, air, compression and spark then you should get an explosion. That's the four main requirements right there. It still sounds to me like your ignition timing is off as If you're firing on the exhaust stroke.

That is were I am at also. You should be able to get it run for a couple of seconds.
Op states he is positive he has fuel, Spark, Valve timing is correct. He has everything needed to run. there has to be something happening at the wrong time. I don’t remember when I did my flywheel but can you get that on 180 out?

[Btborja]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Okay, so fuel lines are correct but you're not sure if the fuel that was in the tank was still good. Normally, four months would be okay as long as your tank and lines were sealed and slightly pressurized so that air cannot infiltrate into the system and the fuel can't evaporate out.

This is a stupid question: Did you prime the pump before trying to crank the engine?

Here's my suggestion before you go any further: Disconnect your supply line in the engine bay and pump out what you can into a fuel container and set that aside. Then add a few gallons of fresh premium fuel, prime the pump by turning the key to the ON position then back to OFF about 10 times and then try starting again.

Did you ever try swapping the low voltage sides of your ignition coils?

How about your injector connectors, could they be accidentally swapped causing them to inject at the incorrect times?

What gets me is that when you try spraying starting fluid in the intake, it doesn't even fire then, and you say you have good compression. If you have fuel, air, compression and spark then you should get an explosion. That's the four main requirements right there. It still sounds to me like your ignition timing is off as If you're firing on the exhaust stroke.

Okay so tell me what y’all think. I took my air intake off the car and sprayed starter fluid at throttle body. Had my girlfriend crank the car and it literally shot fire straight out! Super wild! So I got to thinking is there anyway possible I put the heads on backwards??? Would that even work?? I followed this guide to the absolute T! https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...87902-5448.pdf Not once, not twice, but three times! I know there is no way in hell I installed it incorrectly unless I’m 360 out some how... but how would I even know I was 360 out?? I did timing and cranked the crank a million times never once got outta line or anything. So honestly could I have put the heads on wrong? Is that even possible?? Or am I just tripping?? What’s y’all’s input....

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Btborja

Okay so tell me what y’all think. I took my air intake off the car and sprayed starter fluid at throttle body. Had my girlfriend crank the car and it literally shot fire straight out! Super wild! So I got to thinking is there anyway possible I put the heads on backwards??? Would that even work?? I followed this guide to the absolute T! https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...87902-5448.pdf Not once, not twice, but three times! I know there is no way in hell I installed it incorrectly unless I’m 360 out some how... but how would I even know I was 360 out?? I did timing and cranked the crank a million times never once got outta line or anything. So honestly could I have put the heads on wrong? Is that even possible?? Or am I just tripping?? What’s y’all’s input....

Well, you wouldn’t ever be able to install the heads backwards seeing how your cam sprockets need to be towards the front of the engine, but I suppose it MIGHT be possible to swap the heads from passenger’s side to driver’s side, but I highly doubt that Subaru would engineer that possibility into the design. I.E. the bolt patterns simply wouldn’t allow for that to be possible and you would be using the intake ports as exhaust ports and vice versa. You probably wouldn’t even be able to bolt the intake and exhaust manifolds on in that case. Someone with experience pulling these engines and heads here should be able to verify this as I have not had to do this personally.

You’re getting flames shooting out the intake like it’s trying to fire on the exhaust stroke. That’s the classic symptom with a distributor-style ignition system when the distributor is rotated 180 degrees out of sync or the wires are connected to the cap in the wrong order. Perhaps you’ve got your intake and exhaust cam sensors swapped? I’m running out of ideas.