2025 BRZ Turbo

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by TurboLag23

This would be the easiest thing in the world actually - and I'm patiently waiting for when an automaker actually does it with a sports car. Whichever automaker does it first would be entering a space that's currently completely unoccupied - and where the market is very clearly headed.

You employ the exact same recipe as the 1st gen Honda Insight, Honda CRZ, and most of the Mazdas sold in Europe (the e-Skyactiv-X cars). You take an efficient gas engine, you put an electric motor between it and the flywheel, you mount up the rest of the clutch and a manual transmission, and you top it off with a small battery pack (5-6 kWh). Done. You get a manual-transmission mild hybrid with the benefit of a greatly aided power curve (much more power/torque at low RPMs), along with dramatically increased fuel efficiency.

In the case of the Mazda3 sold in Europe, they offer two versions: the normal petrol version (identical to what we have here), and the e-Skyactiv X version. The weight difference is a whopping... 134 lbs. I'd take that tradeoff in a heartbeat, especially since the batteries can be located in the spare tire well to aid in weight distribution (unlike FI, which pretty much has to go where the engine is).

There's been supercar hybrids for the last ~10 years or more, I thought for sure that would trickle down to a reasonably priced sports car by now. I guess that's what I get for believing in trickle down anything.

- Andrew

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by TurboLag23

Mazda quotes 20-30% increases.

Anecdotally, magazines are reporting everything from low 40s in city driving to high 50s on highway.

Let me know when you can find actual numbers.

Typically those type of hybrid systems don't do much on the highway, they are typically to help smaller engines get up to speed more easily. The US Mazda 3 w/the 2.0 is rated at 28/36.......so I'm having a hard time believing the mild hybrid system is adding these types of gains.

[Desertnate]

Originally Posted by TurboLag23

This would be the easiest thing in the world actually - and I'm patiently waiting for when an automaker actually does it with a sports car. Whichever automaker does it first would be entering a space that's currently completely unoccupied - and where the market is very clearly headed.

Several makers are already there with their hypercars (Porsche, McClaren, etc). Ferrari is moving it down down into larger sales number vehicles vehicles like the 296 (it's actually a PHEV), and we now have Chevy doing it in the C8 E-Ray. The most recent gen of the NSX was hybrid as well.

The challenge I see is someone actually making one affordable. Development costs are high, and sales numbers will always be low in the US's truck/SUV crazy market. People who actually like cars are rare and those who like fun to drive cars and can afford to by them new, even more rare. That's a big economic risk for any automaker and a big reason why Toyota decided to go the partnership route on the twins and the Supra. Technically it's possible. We just need automakers willing to take the risk and make them.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Desertnate

Several makers are already there with their hypercars (Porsche, McClaren, etc). Ferrari is moving it down down into larger sales number vehicles vehicles like the 296 (it's actually a PHEV), and we now have Chevy doing it in the C8 E-Ray. The most recent gen of the NSX was hybrid as well.

The challenge I see is someone actually making one affordable. Development costs are high, and sales numbers will always be low in the US's truck/SUV crazy market. People who actually like cars are rare and those who like fun to drive cars and can afford to by them new, even more rare. That's a big economic risk for any automaker and a big reason why Toyota decided to go the partnership route on the twins and the Supra. Technically it's possible. We just need automakers willing to take the risk and make them.

"Just slap a turbo on the BRZ" will turn into "just slap a mild hybrid motor on the BRZ" when of course it isn't that simple.

But...the discontinuation of the STI with the explanation that it will (maybe?) be back in some electrified form has me hopeful that Subaru is really going to give the semi-affordable hybrid or electric performance car thing a go. It could be really cool and I think they could do a great job of it. Maybe.

I do hope it's hybrid and not full electric.

- Andrew

[Tcoat]

All in all if they do anything be it hybrid, electric, new platform, turbo 3 banger, dilithium crystals or Mr. Fusion any resulting car would be an 86/BRZ in name only. You can only "upgrade" something so far before it is no longer what it started out as no matter what the badges may say.

[Desertnate]

In today's market conditions I don't think we can be too hung up on names, badges, powertrains, or brands.

Time marches on and things change. Yes, the Supra speaks with a thick German accent these days, but at least it's still a fast RWD sports car. Our beloved BRZ's might go from a grumbly flat-4 to a screaming FI 3-cyclinder engine or a hybrid or both, but as long as it's still a slightly affordable fun to drive RWD coupe, I wouldn't complain. In both those cases the spirit is still there, just different internal organs to ensure survival of the species. Adapt or die.

Just don't slap the name on an SUV (looking at you Ford and Mitsubishi).

[g e]

Nope.

If next Gen happens it will be 4 wheel electric.

[Shub Deetle]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All in all if they do anything be it hybrid, electric, new platform, turbo 3 banger, dilithium crystals or Mr. Fusion any resulting car would be an 86/BRZ in name only. You can only "upgrade" something so far before it is no longer what it started out as no matter what the badges may say.

That applies to almost anything. It’s the age-old philosophical debate: when does something stop being what it is. Where is that fine line that separates what it is from what it isn’t.

I’m currently remodelling a power amp with all new parts, chassis and so on. It looks completely different, yet I’ve used the original circuit in every way. Is it the same amp? If not, when did it cease being original? I’ve been thinking of taking the name/brand badge off the original chassis and putting it on the new one. I’m not so sure now.