Manual tranny takes another step into oblivion

[madfast]

When the new 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 arrives this spring, performance car enthusiasts will experience the hands-on driving satisfaction of a “stick” with the ease of an automatic transmission due to General Motors’ newly improved TapShift technology.

Since its introduction several years ago, TapShift has allowed drivers to control up- and down-shifts with paddle shifters. For 2012, GM powertrain engineers implemented a patent-pending software algorithm that improves tap response time by up to 60 percent compared to the previous system. No hardware changes were required for the upgrade.

“The faster you can get to the next gear, the better, and from the sound of it, the ZL1 automatic’s performance is going to make paddle shifting more exhilarating and satisfying for drivers of all skill sets,” said Eric Fedewa , director of Global Powertrain Forecasting at IHS Automotive. “We’re seeing a trend toward more manual-mode-capable, fun-to-drive automatic transmissions across all vehicle segments, and GM’s technology is leading the pack.”

The 2012 ZL1’s six-speed automatic transmission delivers a 0-60 time of 3.9 seconds – a tenth of a second faster than the manual transmission time.

By staging hydraulic pressure in the clutch for the next gear, the new control module algorithm reduces tap delay for the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 up-shifts by 200-300 milliseconds. The system anticipates shift requests based on current gear, throttle, torque and speed. By pre-filling the clutch for the next gear, the tap up-shift response is near instantaneous.

“As great as the previous system’s performance was, we were driven to achieve even better results,” said Gabe Gibson, GM performance car calibration engineer. “Not only did we make the upgrade to Camaro, we implemented it on the 2012 Corvette as well, and will use it on all vehicles with TapShift control going forward.”

Staged up-shifts will help drivers of the 2012 ZL1 – the most powerful production Camaro ever – get the most out of its supercharged 6.2L engine that is SAE-rated at 580 horsepower (432 kW) and 556 lb.-ft. of torque (754 Nm).

ZL1 customers’ choice of an automatic 6L90 transmission with TapShift manual mode or a six-speed manual transmission is unmatched in its class. With 0 to 60 taking 3.9 seconds, and a top speed of 184 mph, the power and acceleration of the ZL1 automatic rivals many supercars.

“We think Camaro drivers will really appreciate the performance improvement offered by staged up-shifts, whether they’re merging onto the freeway or putting their ZL1 through its paces at the track,” Gibson said.

The Camaro ZL1 Coupe will go on sale this spring as a 2012 model. The Camaro ZL1 Convertible will go on sale this summer as a 2013 model. Chevrolet expects the automatic transmission to command up to 50 percent of ZL1 sales.

[u2b]FedhzXqk18k[/u2b]

So manufacturers find yet another way to improve the conventional torque converter AT. and it's all software too. combine this with the IS-F hardware, and the Sky-Activ "small torque converter/early lockup" philosophy, and there is no way the manual tranny survives the next decade or two. heck even DCT gearbox usage will have to be re-evaluated in the non-supercar segments (VAG cars notwithstanding as they are "all in" with their DSG). look at the veloster turbo. it uses the AT instead of the DCT likely because the DCT cant handle the torque... look at the ford powershift DCT, cutting corners = bad software = crappy DCT performance...

[Infernal]

manual trans are cheaper, so will never go into oblivion i dont think - untill electric cars are mainstream at least

[LSxJunkie]

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Infernal

manual trans are cheaper, so will never go into oblivion i dont think - untill electric cars are mainstream at least

doesnt matter if it's cheaper. if nobody buys them, then eventually the manufacturers wont even bother to offer them. this has been true for north america for a while now. in europe, MT is still the tranny of choice, but year after year AT/DCT/CVT takes more and more market share. in asia, AT/CVT use is growing fast. in third world countries, MT rules because it's cheap.

as for sporty cars, once the 911 GT3 becomes PDK only, you will then know, that you have heard the death knell of the MT, forever...

on to another point related to the original post. one area that has been ardently MT preferred is the american muscle/pony/sportscar... ZR1, GT500, Viper, etc were all MT only. that is until now. the top spec ZL1 with a good AT tranny? GM may expect a 50% take rate, but i personally feel it will be way more than that. no doubt if i am right, the camaro, which already outsells the mustang, will edge even farther ahead. this will force ford to come up with their own AT to reach parity. likewise, the Tapshift upgrades are also on the 2012 vettes, and just may find their way into the top spec models like the ZR1 and whatever the next gen vette offers. once that happens, i again suspect that the take rate will soon surpass the MT. at that point, the american manufacturers will have already adopted the mindset that performance AT's are necessary to compete. then cars like the Viper, may very well come out with a fancy DCT/AMT in the future. and all this IMO stems from the "bold" decision from GM to give the ZL1 an AT tranny that's worth a damn... it will start a ripple effect. it will get american cars acclimated to performance AT's and they wont look back. high tech drivetrains (DCT, torque vectoring, active diff, etc) have never been a priority for american sportscars. i believe the AT ZL1 is the first step that they soon WILL adopt this tech and this philosophy...

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by madfast

doesnt matter if it's cheaper. if nobody buys them, then eventually the manufacturers wont even bother to offer them. this has been true for north america for a while now. in europe, MT is still the tranny of choice, but year after year AT/DCT/CVT takes more and more market share. in asia, AT/CVT use is growing fast. in third world countries, MT rules because it's cheap.

as for sporty cars, once the 911 GT3 becomes PDK only, you will then know, that you have heard the death knell of the MT, forever...

on to another point related to the original post. one area that has been ardently MT preferred is the american muscle/pony/sportscar... ZR1, GT500, Viper, etc were all MT only. that is until now. the top spec ZL1 with a good AT tranny? GM may expect a 50% take rate, but i personally feel it will be way more than that. no doubt if i am right, the camaro, which already outsells the mustang, will edge even farther ahead. this will force ford to come up with their own AT to reach parity. likewise, the Tapshift upgrades are also on the 2012 vettes, and just may find their way into the top spec models like the ZR1 and whatever the next gen vette offers. once that happens, i again suspect that the take rate will soon surpass the MT. cars like the Viper, have euro ties and its not a big stretch that they may come out with a fancy DCT/AMT in the future. and all this stems from the "bold" decision from GM to give the ZL1 an AT tranny that's worth a damn...

That 6L80 and 6L90 have been around for quite a while. All they did was update the tune and add a shit ton more cooling because that's a big heavy trans that runs very hot when you put that much power through one. I've driven Tahoes, Corvettes, and Silverados with that trans. It's a fine transmission if you must have an automatic. However, this new tune is nothing to write home about. All of the GM tuners have been doing this since the 6L transmissions came out in 08. It's easy when the transmission settings are right there in the BCM and the BCMs are unlocked and easy to tune. Essentially all they're doing is bumping the line pressure the car shifts faster and harder (and hammers the clutch packs), which is what GM decided to do as well here.

Plus, the ZL1 isn't a raw sports car. It's a Muscle Car. Muscle Cars have always come in automatic. Because drag racing. Essentially, what you're getting is a downmarket CTS-V coupe.

The 6L90 is 240lbs. The TR6060 is 130lbs and more fun to drive. I know where my money would go.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

That 6L80 and 6L90 have been around for quite a while. All they did was update the tune and add a shit ton more cooling because that's a big heavy trans that runs very hot when you put that much power through one. I've driven Tahoes, Corvettes, and Silverados with that trans. It's a fine transmission if you must have an automatic. However, this new tune is nothing to write home about. All of the GM tuners have been doing this since the 6L transmissions came out in 08. It's easy when the transmission settings are right there in the BCM and the BCMs are unlocked and easy to tune. Essentially all they're doing is bumping the line pressure the car shifts faster and harder (and hammers the clutch packs), which is what GM decided to do as well here.

Plus, the ZL1 isn't a raw sports car. It's a Muscle Car. Muscle Cars have always come in automatic. Because drag racing. Essentially, what you're getting is a downmarket CTS-V coupe.

The 6L90 is 240lbs. The TR6060 is 130lbs and more fun to drive. I know where my money would go.

yes. but the significance is the fact that they are doing this from the factory to begin with. it represents a first step towards performance automatics. yes the ZL1 is a musclecar, but is it that big of a stretch that the ZR1 may see an auto in the very near future? perhaps because of the AT ZL1's success? and is it a stretch to see the GT500 get an auto to compete? and the BOSS 302? and the Viper to compete with the ZR1 or next gen Vette? the ZL1 getting a good auto is significant imo, because everything i said above is not that far fetched if you consider MT's account for less than 10% of sales...

[Dimman]

What they should keep manuals for is for testing for your license. No manual ability, no license. If you can't operate a damn manual (due to laziness rather than disability) how the hell can you operate the whole rest of the car? God, how much better the roads would be...

[MannyO]

Originally Posted by Dimman

What they should keep manuals for is for testing for your license. No manual ability, no license. If you can't operate a damn manual (due to laziness rather than disability) how the hell can you operate the whole rest of the car? God, how much better the roads would be...

Almost got clipped on 3 occasions today. People are way too distracted when driving these days.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by Dimman

What they should keep manuals for is for testing for your license. No manual ability, no license. If you can't operate a damn manual (due to laziness rather than disability) how the hell can you operate the whole rest of the car? God, how much better the roads would be...

Do you actually believe the nonsense you spout?

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Do you actually believe the nonsense you spout?

I agree with him 100%. If you can't operate a manual transmission you should not be allowed to drive. Learning on a manual transmission gives an overall better understanding of the vehicle and teaches a driver to pay attention all the time.

And if you're so uncoordinated that you can't learn to use one, you've got no business driving a car.

[mastawyrm]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Do you actually believe the nonsense you spout?

I agree too, getting a license is way too easy in this country and being unable to operate a clutch should not be an option. You can drive your lazy ass appliance car if you want but prove that you can drive first.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

What they should keep manuals for is for testing for your license. No manual ability, no license. If you can't operate a damn manual (due to laziness rather than disability) how the hell can you operate the whole rest of the car? God, how much better the roads would be...

Originally Posted by MannyO

Almost got clipped on 3 occasions today. People are way too distracted when driving these days.

Originally Posted by Maxim

I agree with him 100%. If you can't operate a manual transmission you should not be allowed to drive. Learning on a manual transmission gives an overall better understanding of the vehicle and teaches a driver to pay attention all the time.

And if you're so uncoordinated that you can't learn to use one, you've got no business driving a car.

Originally Posted by mastawyrm

I agree too, getting a license is way too easy in this country and being unable to operate a clutch should not be an option. You can drive your lazy ass appliance car if you want but prove that you can drive first.

as if people in europe, in their MT cars, dont check their text messages and crash? you guys act as if driving manual is some special ability that only the "good drivers" posess. people drive manual all over the world, and they crash and die all over the world as well. the problem is PEOPLE, not the car...

The image below shows the location of 2,396,750 road crashes in Great Britain from 1999 to 2010. Each light point is an individual collision which resulted in a casualty. The intensity of brightness shows where collisions are more frequent.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15975724

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by madfast

as if people in europe, in their MT cars, dont check their text messages and crash? you guys act as if driving manual is some special ability that only the "good drivers" posess. people drive manual all over the world, and they crash and die all over the world as well. the problem is PEOPLE, not the car...

The image below shows the location of 2,396,750 road crashes in Great Britain from 1999 to 2010. Each light point is an individual collision which resulted in a casualty. The intensity of brightness shows where collisions are more frequent.
*snipped image*

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15975724

So your image is telling me that more accidents happen in densely populated areas where there are more vehicles on the road.....


My insurance company seems to agree. They charge noticably less for the manual transmission version of cars. *shrug*

Learning on a manual transmission requires more effort and acts as a forcing function for understanding certain things about vehicle dynamics. Also, I don't think I've ever heard of a driver of a manual transmission car "hitting the wrong pedal" and driving through a storefront. Since, you know, even if they miss the pedal, they're still pressing the clutch and so it'll just rev the engine.

The simple fact is learning to drive a manual transmission takes longer and if somebody can't learn to do that, then they shouldn't be behind the wheel. In a manual, you're always doing more than one thing at once. In an auto, drivers are more likely to be using their free hand for something distracting. If you deny people who cannot drive a manual transmission a license, then you are taking at least some of the people off the road who are just not suited to a complex task that has the potential to kill people.

The habits you learn while becoming proficient with a manual transmission stay with you, even after you're reached the point where shifting is an automatic thing that you don't need to think about. Things like using engine braking, managing your speed, paying closer attention to what is happening in front of you, thinking ahead on passing, merging, etc.

Anyways, the simple fact is I strongly believe that if you are not coordinated enough to learn to drive a manual transmission, you're not coordinated enough to drive a vehicle. Taking those people out of cars is not going to eliminate accidents....it'd probably make a small impact though, especially for the really vapid people who just run into shit and can't even park.

I think that's fair. I also happen to believe that all drivers should be required to take a short performance driving course because it teaches important concepts that are applicable during an emergency maneuver and gives them a safe venue in which to experience what it feels like when a vehicle is losing control. Reducing or controlling panic reactions during an emergency maneuver would strongly benefit many drivers.

Basically, I think Germany has it exactly right. If that means that it costs $1000 dollars to recieve your initial license, I am more than willing to pay that, and when I have kids, I would be more than willing to pay it. Giving anybody a license as long as they can pass a paper test is as idiotic as allowing anybody to purchase a gun or go hunting without proper training on weapons safety, cleaning, etc.

[brufleth]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Everyone sort of seems to be ignoring this post. Maybe because heel toe isn't something people usually do on a daily basis. What just about anyone with a manual does do a daily basis is shift ahead of turns, use their engine to slow them down instead of just braking, and skips gears. These simple behaviors make even good semi-autos with flappy paddles or whatever seem annoying to me. I'm either counting taps trying to get into the right gear or bumping readline when I down shift going into a corner, or find myself relying on the brakes way more.

If you're drag racing maybe a good auto might be better just because shift time is all that matters. If you're actually driving a car no amount of shifting speed is going to make up for the fact that the car can only base gear choice on some basic information.