2022 GR86 Premium MT & AT Comparo

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Frost

Why can't we all just be friends and get along?

I agree though - to each their own! We can all enjoy the fact we still have an I.C.E. powered car... let alone a twin to enjoy!

It’s funny how people read emotion into threads and emails. People can debate and disagree with out it devolving into a mess. It’s literally what a forum is for.

[LanceLane174]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

We get bent out of shape because people keep dismissing how many enthusiasts actually want a manual. It’s literally over half of BRZ/86 customers. It’s over 80% for WRX customers! Go to a BMW forum if you want to join the Auto apologists. They already accepted that they’re never getting a manual non-M car again.

At ********* they have a spreadsheet of who has ordered the BRZ and 86 and 90 percent are manuals for both cars. If that keeps up then Toyota is going to have to change the amount of autos it orders from Subaru for these cars since over the years the 86 has traditionally sold like 70 percent autos. Maybe this is because true enthusiasts are more likely to buy the car early and also more likely to be the ones to drive a manual.

I wouldn't buy this in an auto, but I understand those that do. All good.

I owned an 87 Chrysler Conquest in auto back in 1991 and everyday I wished I had found a manual instead. My buddie drove the manual version of the Mitsubishi Starion, which is the same car and I was jealous every time we were together.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by LanceLane174

At ********* they have a spreadsheet of who has ordered the BRZ and 86 and 90 percent are manuals for both cars. If that keeps up then Toyota is going to have to change the amount of autos it orders from Subaru for these cars since over the years the 86 has traditionally sold like 70 percent autos. Maybe this is because true enthusiasts are more likely to buy the car early and also more likely to be the ones to drive a manual.

I wouldn't buy this in an auto, but I understand those that do. All good.

I owned an 87 Chrysler Conquest in auto back in 1991 and everyday I wished I had found a manual instead. My buddie drove the manual version of the Mitsubishi Starion, which is the same car and I was jealous every time we were together.

Mind you, autos in the 80s suuuuuucked bad.

[LanceLane174]

Good point.

[AJBRZ]

Good video on AT vs MT. According to this guy’s experience the 86 AT was quicker around the track than the MT and both transmissions in the new BRZ.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by LanceLane174

Maybe this is because true enthusiasts are more likely to buy the car early and also more likely to be the ones to drive a manual.

It is 100% this. They are building manuals because the diehard enthusiasts are your early adopters. Once the 50+ crowd starts showing up, dealers will want 3 autos for every 1 manual.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

It is 100% this. They are building manuals because the diehard enthusiasts are your early adopters. Once the 50+ crowd starts showing up, dealers will want 3 autos for every 1 manual.

How does this become age related?
The 50 plus crowd are far more likely to buy MTs.
There is an age limit to be a "diehard enthusiast"?

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How does this become age related?
The 50 plus crowd are far more likely to buy MTs.
There is an age limit to be a "diehard enthusiast"?

Around 70% of buyers of the 86 go for the AT and are aged 50+.

the BRZ skews younger at around 30 years and the majority of buyers at MT buyers.

I'm making an inference of that information (provided from several journalists who talked about it at the recent GR86/ BRZ launches) that, yes, age is related to choice in transmission. In part because Toyota's demographics skew much older. I don't know if it is still 60+, but if older folks are showing up in greater numbers to a Toyota dealership, and are getting put in an 86, it seems they are choosing ATs.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Around 70% of buyers of the 86 go for the AT and are aged 50+.

the BRZ skews younger at around 30 years and the majority of buyers at MT buyers.

I'm making an inference of that information (provided from several journalists who talked about it at the recent GR86/ BRZ launches) that, yes, age is related to choice in transmission. In part because Toyota's demographics skew much older. I don't know if it is still 60+, but if older folks are showing up in greater numbers to a Toyota dealership, and are getting put in an 86, it seems they are choosing ATs.

Please give me your supporting evidence for this.

[mazeroni]

Take rate of transmission: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/21/...smission-take/

"the Toyota 86, where only 33% of those sold in 2018 had a manual. On top of that, the BRZ has a stronger manual take-rate than the enthusiast darling Mazda Miata; the soft top had 76% of buyers going for a stick, and the RF had 52%. If we had to speculate, it seems the Subaru BRZ is attracting the hardcore sports car fans."

I suppose it is possible that the numbers flipped since 2019, but I'm hearing from all these journalists from the recent launches that are saying the same thing. I'm not going to go through each of those videos to find timestamps... sorry. I'll take the L on that.

Here is Savaggeese showing the BRZ and 86 average ago from 7 weeks ago - Source Subaru (2021)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUFZhDvLmWu/

Average age BRZ: 35~40
Average 86: 50~55*

[AJBRZ]

I was driving an automatic FR-S years ago, around the first time they came out, and I always wondered what it would be like to have a manual. So around last year, I bought a manual BRZ and had it for a few months, but have since sold it, since I actually wasn’t driving as much as I thought I would be. The BRZ was my first manual car and I love the change in driving focus it gave me. But living in NYC, with all the lights, stop signs, and traffic, it got to be more of a chore to drive the BRZ. So now here I am contemplating, picking up the new 86, but in automatic. Overall I don’t really mind not having a clutch, less work when I just want to get to my destination and when I want to really have a spirited drive I think having paddles to keep me in the right gear will suffice. Hopefully I don't regret that mindset lol. But I guess I’m the type of car enthusiast that isn’t die-hard, but more so just loves to drive, and appreciates a car that loves to be driven. Rant over lol

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by AJBRZ

But I guess I’m the type of car enthusiast that isn’t die-hard, but more so just loves to drive, and appreciates a car that loves to be driven. Rant over lol

Well, here is where I think some of the misunderstandings occur.

All car enthusiasts are not necessarily manual enthusiasts - which is fine. But all manual enthusiasts are car enthusiasts and the manual is the "but for" reason they would rule-in, or rule-out, any particular car for potential ownership.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How does this become age related?
The 50 plus crowd are far more likely to buy MTs.
There is an age limit to be a "diehard enthusiast"?

We dont really have much data to support any of those claims.

IMO I think there are competing effects going on.

The way it works from my view is that more traditionally the older you got the more you would see autos in use, I have only a couple of mates who still drive manual as a preference for instance. Whereas these days people don't even have the option for cheaper manual cars when they start.

Enthusiasts are more likely in general to buy a manual, and its probably true that the 'relative' number of younger car enthusiast are buying auto now because they haven't learnt how to drive a manual, and the options are not there as much.

However this doesn't mean that the 50 crowd is outright more likely than younger buyers to get a manual. The comparison data of the 86 and BRZ sales indicate that the 86 are older buyers and are more automatics, and the BRZ sales are younger buyer's and more manuals.

[86-75309]

All I know is I've been buying cars for over 40 years and that adds up to 19 different cars, all with manual transmissions. I've also owned 7 motorcycles (manual transmissions) and 3 battery electric vehicles (no transmissions).