2015 WRX vs. FR-S/BRZ

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Eh, you're right @Tcoat.

I understand different strokes for different folks, but its hard to just let it go when people impose their opinions like gosspel.

Yep! Us "delusional" guys just need to smile and nod while the enlightened ones preach the joys of their WRXs, Miatas, Mustangs or what ever crap they think rules at this point in time!

Not that I don't agree with some of their points but geeez it is an 86 forum so why criticize the guys that love their cars (be they wrong or right).

Besides (back on topic) my personal opinion stands that WRXs are over hyped family sedans that are uglier than sin, handle like boats, expensive to operate and don't have a thing going for them to ME. Anybody can rant all they want about how they "perform better" or are "more practical" I would not take one if it was free (well I might and trade it for an Evo)!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I don't have a problem with someone desiring something different. I DO have a problem with people talking bullshit as an explanation for WHY they desire something different.

Saying that you will get more performance out of a car that weighs 700-1400 more lbs for less money falls into that category once you're talking about power and performance mods...

Jaden

My sentiments exactly!
I will add though that I also do not enjoy people telling me what is "more practical" just because that works best for them.

[P86RAVES]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

May as well give up dude!
The guys that know what they personally want in a car seem to figure that is what everybody else should want as well and there will be no convincing them otherwise anyway.

Which seems to be how a few are with the FT86.

Originally Posted by Jaden

I don't have a problem with someone desiring something different. I DO have a problem with people talking bullshit as an explanation for WHY they desire something different.

Saying that you will get more performance out of a car that weighs 700-1400 more lbs for less money falls into that category once you're talking about power and performance mods...

Jaden

Would you sink $25k in a Miata, including the price of the car or get an FT86?

Woul you sink $11k into an FT86 or get an STi?

Would you sink $30k into a STi or get a GTR?

At a certain point the money invested in a platform could be used to be a better platform that can be built upon.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not that I don't agree with some of their points but geeez it is an 86 forum so why criticize the guys that love their cars (be they wrong or right).

Besides (back on topic) my personal opinion stands that WRXs are over hyped family sedans that are uglier than sin, handle like boats, expensive to operate and don't have a thing going for them to ME. Anybody can rant all they want about how they "perform better" or are "more practical" I would not take one if it was free (well I might and trade it for an Evo)!

The title this thread is 2015 WRX vs FR-S/BRZ so it's supposed to be a discussion about those two platforms; criticism should be expected. As far as the forum at large... it's a forum. That means it's going to be full of opinion, and some of it isn't going to be in favor of yours.

You don't have to say "my personal opinion," or even "in my opinion". Nobody is taking anybody as an expert, so whatever you type is understood to be a personal opinion. Praise the lord Jesus almighty, I have spoken my gospel.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by P86RAVES

Which seems to be how a few are with the FT86.



Would you sink $25k in a Miata, including the price of the car or get an FT86?

Woul you sink $11k into an FT86 or get an STi?

Would you sink $30k into a STi or get a GTR?

At a certain point the money invested in a platform could be used to be a better platform that can be built upon.

Again, you are using YOUR opinion. I would rather sink 11k in a Twin than buying a lightly modded STi. (as a matter of fact.... I am about 7k into my BRZ right now). You are already trying to troll by using your opinion on the STi being a better platform.


The title this thread is 2015 WRX vs FR-S/BRZ so it's supposed to be a discussion about those two platforms; criticism should be expected. As far as the forum at large... it's a forum. That means it's going to be full of opinion, and some of it isn't going to be in favor of yours.

You don't have to say "my personal opinion," or even "in my opinion". Nobody is taking anybody as an expert, so whatever you type is understood to be a personal opinion. Praise the lord Jesus almighty, I have spoken my gospel.

Yes, once again you are trying to defend your argument by asserting your opinions.
You're opinions are that. And just like everyone else in the world, you have the right to be utterly and hopelessly wrong.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by P86RAVES

Which seems to be how a few are with the FT86. Yep totally agree!



Would you sink $25k in a Miata, including the price of the car or get an FT86?

Woul you sink $11k into an FT86 or get an STi? Depends on what you want to do with it.

Would you sink $30k into a STi or get a GTR? Depends on what you want to do with it.

At a certain point the money invested in a platform could be used to be a better platform that can be built upon. Depends on how you are defining "better". This is not the same for everybody.



The title this thread is 2015 WRX vs FR-S/BRZ so it's supposed to be a discussion about those two platforms; criticism should be expected. Without a doubt
As far as the forum at large... it's a forum. That means it's going to be full of opinion, and some of it isn't going to be in favor of yours. But if your opinion differs then you are "delusional"?

You don't have to say "my personal opinion," or even "in my opinion". Many things have been posted as "fact", "the truth" and "being honest"
Nobody is taking anybody as an expert, so whatever you type is understood to be a personal opinion. Fine until somebody steps up and claims to be such and expert then proceeds to tell you that something should not be your opinion because it is all wrong (again "fact, truth, honest") Praise the lord Jesus almighty, I have spoken my gospel. Actually a great simile for the debates here as there are 21 major religions and each one thinks they are the one and only that is correct and everybody should see things their way.

.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by P86RAVES

Which seems to be how a few are with the FT86.



Would you sink $25k in a Miata, including the price of the car or get an FT86?

I think I've already answered that question based on what I drive...

Woul you sink $11k into an FT86 or get an STi?

I'd rather put 25K into an twin and have it be exactly what I want rather than settle for something less that's heavy, ugly, sedan etc...because it's easier...

Would you sink $30k into a STi or get a GTR?

At a certain point the money invested in a platform could be used to be a better platform that can be built upon.



The title this thread is 2015 WRX vs FR-S/BRZ so it's supposed to be a discussion about those two platforms; criticism should be expected. As far as the forum at large... it's a forum. That means it's going to be full of opinion, and some of it isn't going to be in favor of yours.

You don't have to say "my personal opinion," or even "in my opinion". Nobody is taking anybody as an expert, so whatever you type is understood to be a personal opinion. Praise the lord Jesus almighty, I have spoken my gospel.

As was pointed out by tcoat with the fact, being honest, etc..., you're now backpedaling saying that it was just opinion when that is being disingenuous at best...

Jaden

[thill]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I don't have a problem with someone desiring something different. I DO have a problem with people talking bullshit as an explanation for WHY they desire something different.

Saying that you will get more performance out of a car that weighs 700-1400 more lbs for less money falls into that category once you're talking about power and performance mods...

Jaden

How does a $25-28K FT86 outperform a $25-28K WRX? Stock for stock. Yes the WRX weighs more, but in stock form it has better lateral acceleration, 0-60, 1/4 mile, figure 8, and even braking.

Yeah, if you start talking about dumping $7-10K into an FT86, but you are no longer in WRX territory. Stage1 gains with a $800 investment on a stock 2015 WRX yields +50hp and +70ft lbs torque. It is pretty cheap to mod a 2015 WRX to get some decent gains.

[tahdizzle]

WRX is definitely the better buy to a STi, In MY opinion.

[P86RAVES]

I used the STi because it's relevant to the topic of this thread.

A Mustang GT or BMW 228i would have satisfied the $36k range as well.

Tcoat, it would depend on what you're looking for, I agree there. If you want a Japanese, lightweight FR, then not even a Cobra Mustang could satisfy you need. If you're looking to compete in a certain class, then the same goes for that. My logic is numbers and potential without getting into cutting and welding on the chassis, that's what I mean by better.

What I mean by delusional FR-S owner is those that exaggerate what the car is. Those who think it's fast or provides handling that rivals cars costing double its price. Those who think this car is the second coming.

Opinions on feel and emotion are facts and is he person being honest. If you say the FT86 is the best handling car you've ever driven and it provides tons of driver feed back I can't say you're wrong, because it's a fact that you feel that way. What I can do is offer my opinion.

As far as experts goes, let's say Vivid racing came in and started talking Engines. They'd be taken as experts in that case because of their experience with them. The same if Mike Kojima or Eric Hsu came in and started talking about anything chassis and driving dynamics related.

But so far as how something feels to a person, or how someone feels about it... then your analogy of religion show true in that.

[GT86meMR2]

So the WRX is a better CAR because It has a Factory turbo? Because i'm pretty Sure This discussion would Be way different if the ft86 and wrx shared the Same engine.

[thill]

Originally Posted by GT86meMR2

So the WRX is a better CAR because It has a Factory turbo?

Better in terms of what? Stock for stock, if you have $26K in your pocket to spend on a car which one offers better performance? And we are not just measuring performance based on power at the wheels.

[echo419]

they're totally different cars for totally different people. might as well be comparing F150's to the Fiat 500.

[GT86meMR2]

I pretty much look at how the CAR performs after im done with It regardless How much It eventually costs me. In My eyes the only reason the wrx is somewhat viable is because It has a Factory turbo and therefore easier increase in power. I can see what People like about it though.

[thill]

Originally Posted by echo419

they're totally different cars for totally different people. might as well be comparing F150's to the Fiat 500.

I don't disagree at all, but if someone has $27k budget for a new car and wants something performance related and they stop at a Subaru dealership it seems logical that they might compare these two cars.

From a performance perspective, it is not really close. The WRX in stock form is a superior car from just about every measurable criteria that is measured.

The intangibles are in the feel and sportiness of the BRZ. It is hard to measure in a number, but the BRZ feels much more like a sportscar in terms of the driving experience, layout of the cockpit, etc. In the previous generation WRX the gap was even bigger because the previous gen had a much softer stock suspension and not nearly as tight of a steering rack. The 2015 bridged some of this gap, but it simply will never drive and feel like a smaller, lighter, RWD sportscar. For me, it is more fun to drive, but there are some things holding it back and the power is one of them.

Looking at sales numbers, it is very possible that the 2015 WRX started to impact FR-S/BRZ sales. It is hard to tell though because it could just be decreased sales of the twins due to the fact that they have been out a number of years now and also because they play in more of a niche market.