Remote Workers Going Back To Office??

[NoHaveMSG]

Not only can I not work from home, I usually work on home stuff at work

Tonight will probably be changing the clutch on a motorcycle and building new ramps for my car trailer.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Now for those that won't get it because tucker carlson said not to.. well...

LMFAO ol' Tucker Carlson

The first time I ever saw him on TV, he was interviewing some "liberal" lady who wanted to take the word "man" out of anything and everything because it was offensive. Since then, I've never taken anything I see on his show seriously.

[Slowbro]

I'm still frustrated with the idea that upper management is reneging on promises for remote work.



It's surprising how many places don't have metrics to measure productivity, or are so behind the modern business that it's constant fire drills and there's no time to develop valid metrics.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

My google fu is failing me. I tried a number of search sequences to find references to the events you cited and came up empty. That may be due to the effect of the level of noise in the search engine resulting from the flood of covid references. Can you offer some citations to support your claims?

I can't find it anymore either, every search is dominated by a Moderna sponsored ad.

This information used to be available on VAERS.

I also tried looking up "Moderna vaccines that are not COVID" and it kept directing me to COVID vaccines.

The conspiracy theory is that the reason the CDC claimed Hydroxychlorquine and Ivermectin does not wok is so the emergency use authorization would go through. One of the stipulations for EUA for any medication or vaccine is that there currently cannot be an existing medication for said ailment/infection.

I will keep looking for the information that I saw, just curious how many pages deep I will need to go on just a search engine.

I mean its not like Google or MSN or any other MSM would censure any information against it huh?

Its not like the FDA/CDC would quit reporting or recording mild reactions for the current COVID vaccine or breakthrough cases...and holy crap, that is new information and it is already basically scrubbed...

I will keep looking and try to post it here.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

My google fu is failing me. I tried a number of search sequences to find references to the events you cited and came up empty. That may be due to the effect of the level of noise in the search engine resulting from the flood of covid references. Can you offer some citations to support your claims?

OK finally found some stuff that alludes to the failed vaccines.

Here is an article talking about stock market prices and it points out this is the FIRST vaccine Moderna has made that has made it to market in the company's 10 year history.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mo...ne-11608134670

here are some excerpts:

"The first-ever authorized product for the 10-year-old biotech"
"The company, which has no FDA-approved or authorized products"
"Moderna has never had one of its products make it as far along in the regulatory process as mRNA-1273."

I have struggled to find the list of the vaccines that failed Phase 3 (phase 3 is typically long term side effects, because it is the last step before full authorization"

On the Moderna site, it points out the COVID Vaccine is not FDA approved but has been approved for EUA.

Also the Moderna vaccine is causing pericarditis in children per CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...s/Moderna.html

CDC Monitoring Reports of Myocarditis and Pericarditis
CDC has received increased reports of myocarditis and pericarditis in adolescents and young adults after COVID-19 vaccination. The known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis. We continue to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for anyone 12 years of age and older.

I just think its strange to push this vaccine that is causing this, on a population that has a 99.997% survival rate for the actual age group (0-19) (to be fair that survival rate number isn't 100% approved, but it has been aggreed upon that 99.99% for that group)

I am just finding so strange that information that was readily available 4 months ago is now impossible to find with popular search engines like Google.

Anyway, not trying to get political so I will leave this alone.

Just feels weird that my immune system beat COVID and I have antibodies. I/we took care of COVID patients when there was no treatment or vaccine and we all got COVID. And now we are expected to take an unapproved vaccine where if things do go poorly, the vaccine maker, our employer and OSHA has even said the employer will not be responsible for bad outcomes.

I got pretty messed up from my ANthrax vaccine while in the Army, and I just don't want to go through that again. Bell's Palsy was scary, and shingles sucked.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Atropine

OK finally found some stuff that alludes to the failed vaccines.

Here is an article talking about stock market prices and it points out this is the FIRST vaccine Moderna has made that has made it to market in the company's 10 year history.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mo...ne-11608134670

here are some excerpts:

"The first-ever authorized product for the 10-year-old biotech"
"The company, which has no FDA-approved or authorized products"
"Moderna has never had one of its products make it as far along in the regulatory process as mRNA-1273."

I have struggled to find the list of the vaccines that failed Phase 3 (phase 3 is typically long term side effects, because it is the last step before full authorization"

On the Moderna site, it points out the COVID Vaccine is not FDA approved but has been approved for EUA.

Also the Moderna vaccine is causing pericarditis in children per CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...s/Moderna.html

CDC Monitoring Reports of Myocarditis and Pericarditis
CDC has received increased reports of myocarditis and pericarditis in adolescents and young adults after COVID-19 vaccination. The known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis. We continue to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for anyone 12 years of age and older.

I just think its strange to push this vaccine that is causing this, on a population that has a 99.997% survival rate for the actual age group (0-19) (to be fair that survival rate number isn't 100% approved, but it has been aggreed upon that 99.99% for that group)

I am just finding so strange that information that was readily available 4 months ago is now impossible to find with popular search engines like Google.

Anyway, not trying to get political so I will leave this alone.

Just feels weird that my immune system beat COVID and I have antibodies. I/we took care of COVID patients when there was no treatment or vaccine and we all got COVID. And now we are expected to take an unapproved vaccine where if things do go poorly, the vaccine maker, our employer and OSHA has even said the employer will not be responsible for bad outcomes.

I got pretty messed up from my ANthrax vaccine while in the Army, and I just don't want to go through that again. Bell's Palsy was scary, and shingles sucked.

Moderna had been doing R&D on mRNA treatments primarily to tackle difficult to prevent/manage/cure afflictions or those that don't get a lot of attention. You don't advance from biotech startup into biotech corporation by trying to out big business the big business. Rather, you tackle the corner cases and longshots that the big players see as unprofitable. So 10 years without a marketable product isn't particularly surprising. It did seem to make them a leader in working with mRNA though, which gave them a huge advantage with coronavirus.

Mid stage trials (2/3) are primarily testing for efficacy while expanding the range of participants, while early trials (0/1) are focused entirely on safety and monitoring for adverse effects. That means that the mRNA-based treatments likely failed to produce measurable results in patients, rather than due to safety issues.

Also, I don't see many children employed as medical professionals, so I fail to see how your comments about children apply to you and other medical professionals receiving the vaccine.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Moderna had been doing R&D on mRNA treatments primarily to tackle difficult to prevent/manage/cure afflictions or those that don't get a lot of attention. You don't advance from biotech startup into biotech corporation by trying to out big business the big business. Rather, you tackle the corner cases and longshots that the big players see as unprofitable. So 10 years without a marketable product isn't particularly surprising. It did seem to make them a leader in working with mRNA though, which gave them a huge advantage with coronavirus.

Mid stage trials (2/3) are primarily testing for efficacy while expanding the range of participants, while early trials (0/1) are focused entirely on safety and monitoring for adverse effects. That means that the mRNA-based treatments likely failed to produce measurable results in patients, rather than due to safety issues.

Also, I don't see many children employed as medical professionals, so I fail to see how your comments about children apply to you and other medical professionals receiving the vaccine.

Simple question:
Should people who have caught COVID and recovered and have antibodies be required to take the vaccine in your opinion?

And you are wrong about the trial phases.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html

"In Phase III, the vaccine is given to thousands of people and tested for efficacy and safety."
"Many vaccines undergo Phase IV formal, ongoing studies after the vaccine is approved and licensed."

The ongoing studies is where long term side effects are uncovered/discovered.

Real Quick, trying to clarify:
I am not trying to pick a fight. I have been in healthcare for 22 years as a CT Tech/X-Ray/Interventional Radiology. I have helped create the Stroke Protocols for Multicare in WA. I have MBA and a Masters Degree in Hospital Management. Been to the Middle East and participated in cutting edge healthcare discoveries over there since I was the only CT Tech in theater at the start of the war.

I am honestly curious if and why people think people who caught COVID and recovered need vaccines for COVID.

I have been involved in research in healthcare for things that didn't really work out as intended. I used to work at a cancer center and I saw many "new techniques and medications" fail and cause patients to deteriorate faster due to these untested things.

More than likely, the vaccines are safe. But I have already been burned by a vaccine that was being "tested" against my will when I was forced to get the Anthrax vaccine.

Re-EDIT: I am not trying to boast or anything, I am trying to show that I am not some internet troll who is spreading conspiracy theories. I have actual experience with this type of stuff, or stuff that is similar.

[cjd]

My team is split between 10cities with an 11hr spread. 3 managers. 20-25 people.


We've had more productive meetings than before because we're not fighting conference room suckage... Side noises, conversations, white board use being hard to follow remotely... And very early/late hours for the ends of the timezones.


We're trying to figure out what we can do in light of upcoming policy changes. Well lose productivity. And only a few are in HQ, the only office where face time matters... Really hard to be promoted in any other office... And no one in my local can help me...



Team building takes time together... Not space. Space just makes it easier. Certainly valuable,but it doesn't have to be ongoing. Like my team could use a get-together all in one place. But we can't do that every work day.



And, as an introvert, having to go into the office has more of a physical toll than I'd had a chance to discover. I'm pondering ways to work with this so I can still do more than crash at the end of a day.


Also HIPAA only applies to medical record sharing between medical providers. Your employer can ask. It's a risk with the extreme polarization at the anti-vax end, but existing case law supports it. You can voluntariky provide your own health information anywhere, any time/place.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Simple question:
Should people who have caught COVID and recovered and have antibodies be required to take the vaccine in your opinion?

As long as enough hold out/refuse that it remains actively transmitted, yes. Along with the boosters it looks like we'll need to maintain adequate antibody levels.
The known long term hazards of infection are currently far worse than the known hazards of the vaccine. There are likely unknowns on both lists.
The economic and cultural hazards of ongoing transmissions are even more damaging. We need to snuff this out.
I understand past experiences making you wary. I'm fighting side effects of medication and a seeming desire to just like on more meds and food restrictions instead of stopping... I've stopped but of course still fighting to get back to normal. Maybe I never will. But this only impacts me. Covid is a community problem. So I went and got vaccinated. Not everyone can, and that's real too. But that's a simple reason. Most people refusing seem to have no legitimate argument... Just a tantrum.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Atropine

OK finally found some stuff that alludes to the failed vaccines.

Here is an article talking about stock market prices and it points out this is the FIRST vaccine Moderna has made that has made it to market in the company's 10 year history.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mo...ne-11608134670

here are some excerpts:

"The first-ever authorized product for the 10-year-old biotech"
"The company, which has no FDA-approved or authorized products"
"Moderna has never had one of its products make it as far along in the regulatory process as mRNA-1273."

I have struggled to find the list of the vaccines that failed Phase 3 (phase 3 is typically long term side effects, because it is the last step before full authorization"

On the Moderna site, it points out the COVID Vaccine is not FDA approved but has been approved for EUA.

You seem to be focused on Moderna. To be sure their product has only emergency approval, but then, that is true of all vaccines at this point. They are also a relatively young player in the vaccine game and are focused on a vaccine technology that is relatively new (mRNA). That none of their previous products have made it through clinical trials is worth noting, but probably shouldn't be surprising given the areas they have been working on (cancer, etc.) My recollection is there are far more failures sector wide than successes in those areas.

We should note however, that the Pfizer vaccine should probably be called the "BioNTech vaccine." It appears that Pfizer's involvement in the development of that vaccine was quite limited. Like Moderna, BioNtech is a newcomer to the vaccine development game. It seems they, too, have previously focused on mRNA uses dealing with cancer and other immunotherapies for rare disorders. I could not find a list of their successes in FDA approvals to compare with Moderna.

And, Pfizer is one of the less savory players in the world of Big Pharma - a group generally not known for it's honesty.

Originally Posted by Atropine

Also the Moderna vaccine is causing pericarditis in children per CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...s/Moderna.html

CDC Monitoring Reports of Myocarditis and Pericarditis
CDC has received increased reports of myocarditis and pericarditis in adolescents and young adults after COVID-19 vaccination. The known and potential benefits of COVID-19 vaccination outweigh the known and potential risks, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis. We continue to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for anyone 12 years of age and older.

I just think its strange to push this vaccine that is causing this, on a population that has a 99.997% survival rate for the actual age group (0-19) (to be fair that survival rate number isn't 100% approved, but it has been aggreed upon that 99.99% for that group)

Without knowing the raw number of vaccinated persons and numbers instances of those events in various age groups along with an understanding of the mechanisms through which the maladies and vaccines are connected I don't see how even a guess, much less a judgement is possible.

Also of note, among the effects of moderate to severe Covid 19 pericarditis and myocarditis are not uncommon.

Again, it should be remembered that both Moderna and Pfizer vaccinated patients have experienced cases of myocarditis and pericarditis. But, I don't find data on the numbers.

As to pushing vaccination in groups with high survival rates we need to remember the goal of the vaccination campaign (actually any vaccination campaign). It is to stop the spread of the virus. Ignoring a potential pool of vectors defeats that purpose. There seems to be considerable difficulty among the population when it comes to understanding that basic concept. If you want to eliminate a viral threat, you need to remove places where it can find a safe harbor. That means preventing anyone from getting it, not just those likely to die.

Originally Posted by Atropine

I am just finding so strange that information that was readily available 4 months ago is now impossible to find with popular search engines like Google.

Anyway, not trying to get political so I will leave this alone.

Hard to say. For folks who look for conspiracies there are lots of signs out there. I am far from the most trusting person out here, but I've always TRIED to abide by the aphorism that "one ought to try not to attribute to malevolence that which can be more easily explained by incompetence."

Originally Posted by Atropine

Just feels weird that my immune system beat COVID and I have antibodies. I/we took care of COVID patients when there was no treatment or vaccine and we all got COVID. And now we are expected to take an unapproved vaccine where if things do go poorly, the vaccine maker, our employer and OSHA has even said the employer will not be responsible for bad outcomes.

I got pretty messed up from my ANthrax vaccine while in the Army, and I just don't want to go through that again. Bell's Palsy was scary, and shingles sucked.

I've had shingles and I've had the vaccine - in that order. Shingles was orders magnitude worse. To say the vaccines are unapproved or untested seems to me a significant overstatement. They have been tested, and they have been approved. Admittedly, for emergency use. But, I would argue that the last 20 months have constituted such an emergency. It is waning, but it is not over yet. Just like polio, measles, mumps, rubella and a host of other diseases that afflicted many of my contemporaries, the best, perhaps only, ways to keep these things contained are vigilance and vaccines.

[Atropine]

Found an article that summarizes my observations and feelings really well about this.

Will post a link and will copy/paste some key points that myself and many of my co-wokers feel (hospital)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...LOC?li=BBnbfcL

"Second, recovered COVID patients have strong long-lasting protection against severe disease if reinfected, and evidence about protective immunity after natural infection is at least as good as from the vaccines. Hence, it makes no sense to require vaccines for recovered patients. For them, it simply adds a risk, however small, without any benefit."

"During the pandemic, the professional laptop class protected themselves by working from home while exposing the working class that brought them food and other goods. It is now the height of hypocrisy to recognize immunity from vaccinations but not immunity from those exposed while serving the laptop class."

Anyway, that second point is how a lot of us "essential workers" feel.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Found an article that summarizes my observations and feelings really well about this.

Will post a link and will copy/paste some key points that myself and many of my co-wokers feel (hospital)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...LOC?li=BBnbfcL

"Second, recovered COVID patients have strong long-lasting protection against severe disease if reinfected, and evidence about protective immunity after natural infection is at least as good as from the vaccines. Hence, it makes no sense to require vaccines for recovered patients. For them, it simply adds a risk, however small, without any benefit."

"During the pandemic, the professional laptop class protected themselves by working from home while exposing the working class that brought them food and other goods. It is now the height of hypocrisy to recognize immunity from vaccinations but not immunity from those exposed while serving the laptop class."

Anyway, that second point is how a lot of us "essential workers" feel.

I personally spend more time reading articles I don't agree with to see if there is something I missed

I thought what I bolded is still being studied, as there is a large degree of immune response in reaction to being infected.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Found an article that summarizes my observations and feelings really well about this.

Will post a link and will copy/paste some key points that myself and many of my co-wokers feel (hospital)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...LOC?li=BBnbfcL

"Second, recovered COVID patients have strong long-lasting protection against severe disease if reinfected, and evidence about protective immunity after natural infection is at least as good as from the vaccines. Hence, it makes no sense to require vaccines for recovered patients. For them, it simply adds a risk, however small, without any benefit."

"During the pandemic, the professional laptop class protected themselves by working from home while exposing the working class that brought them food and other goods. It is now the height of hypocrisy to recognize immunity from vaccinations but not immunity from those exposed while serving the laptop class."

Anyway, that second point is how a lot of us "essential workers" feel.

I deeply appreciate the role(s) essential workers played in getting the country through the pandemic so far and am sorry you feel badly treated.

@NoHaveMSG noted the effectiveness of infection generated antibodies compared to vaccine generated immunity is still being debated. I have seen a number of studies that indicate the vaccines are more effective, particularly against newly emergent variants. All that said, personally, I'm cautiously inclined to treat prior infection as a "vaccination" event. For now.

The article you linked is by a couple of MDs at a prestigious medical school. Thus, I'm surprised to see them taking such a myopic view of the role vaccination plays.

As I note in a previous post;

As to pushing vaccination in groups with high survival rates we need to remember the goal of the vaccination campaign (actually any vaccination campaign). It is to stop the spread of the virus. Ignoring a potential pool of vectors defeats that purpose. There seems to be considerable difficulty among the population when it comes to understanding that basic concept. If you want to eliminate a viral threat, you need to remove places where it can find a safe harbor. That means preventing anyone from getting it, not just those likely to die.

To focus only on the most vulnerable to the disease misses the point when the overall goal is control the pathogen.

[Tcoat]

All that is being proven here is that in the this era of internet you don't have to dig far to find some "information" that supports what you already believe.

If your beliefs are far out enough that you can't find information that supports them then you simply have to say "Oh it has all been removed through some big conspiracy". This is a highly effective way of supporting your stand since at the same time you can claim that all other information is false since it is part of the same conspiracy.