SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[TRev]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

As for fast car, I slightly agree. 370z will be the quick car on national courses, I feel. The #6 RTR car was a Z that was quickly thrown together last minute, just Konis and FSB, no exhaust or much time spent working on alignment or settings, by a driver who didn't have it long (Brian). I think anyone who puts the time we put into our BRZs into a Z will be more capable on a track needing power and gearing.

Plus they will be on 18s to help their slightly tall gearing, versus the HEAVY 19s, for next year

Brian is an unknown factor for me. The car will be good in ProSolo, the Strano course at Nationals as well, the other course at Nationals I think the twins still would have the advantage. Having gone from the Genesis 2.0 to the 3.8, the weight especially over the front of the car is an issue transitionally. I am sure the 370Z has less of that effect with 9/10" wheels. Konis and FSB can get the job done and the reason I ditched my Konis is due to the leaking issues. I would rather pay 5 times as much to have a quality product without issues.


I certainly don't think that the 370z will run within .45 seconds of the fast car in STX on a 60 second course!

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by TRev

I certainly don't think that the 370z will run within .45 seconds of the fast car in STX on a 60 second course!

While I still think the Z is the car on most national courses, this quoted statement is complete truth.

[Wepeel]

Originally Posted by TRev

I know he needed to air on the conservative side for the Street classes but I really don't understand his numbers. Maybe he is using the data from last year which includes the MS-R and Solstice? Either way, I either won't be doing any Match Tours next year or I will be switching to STX. I also planned to run the Pro class regionally which is PAX based...screws that idea too.

The more I think about it the more I'm starting to think I may go straight to STX.

1. It's faster, and that's more fun
2. It has great competition, attendance, and diversity, and I will probably have some of the fastest STX twins in adjacent regions to run with
3. I'll probably end up there anyway, so it minimizes the transacting
4. STX PAX seems fair and reasonable which will help with local autocrosses (there are seldom enough cars/class to make healthy classes so most of the competition is pax)
5. It's a better class for match tours, maybe pro-solo
6. Capability against the 370Z in CS is still TBD, but it's proven to be capable to win STX

The drawback is obviously cost. The question is whether cost delta between konis+front bar and headers+tune+coilovers is worth it. It's definitely compelling.

[des]

Originally Posted by TRev

Brian is an unknown factor for me. The car will be good in ProSolo, the Strano course at Nationals as well, the other course at Nationals I think the twins still would have the advantage. Having gone from the Genesis 2.0 to the 3.8, the weight especially over the front of the car is an issue transitionally. I am sure the 370Z has less of that effect with 9/10" wheels. Konis and FSB can get the job done and the reason I ditched my Konis is due to the leaking issues. I would rather pay 5 times as much to have a quality product without issues.


I certainly don't think that the 370z will run within .45 seconds of the fast car in STX on a 60 second course!

Jeff Stuart, who's a regular front-runner in STX, ran a 49.895 in the Berry BMW in STX at a recent SoCal event and followed it in his 370z at 50.79. No bars, shocks, etc., just some RS3s -- and he'd never autocrossed the car before. I'm sure there's more time to come.

[AustinTX]

How many people are breaking axles on these cars? Seems far more likely in STX than in CS.

[TRev]

Originally Posted by des

Jeff Stuart, who's a regular front-runner in STX, ran a 49.895 in the Berry BMW in STX at a recent SoCal event and followed it in his 370z at 50.79. No bars, shocks, etc., just some RS3s -- and he'd never autocrossed the car before. I'm sure there's more time to come.

Thanks for that info Des. Do you know what the course was like?

I got a response from Rick. Here it is:
Even an RX-8 can probably outrun a BRZ in Stock format. It is difficult to tell what kind of performance increase the +1 wheel allowance will give Street Stock cars (that allowance is sure not going to slow anyone down). As I've mentioned on several Forums, this is going to be a year of evaluation. There is absolutely no data about the Street Classes and cars grouped as they are now in the new Appendix A. The RT classes, from last year, weren't given the +1 wheel allowance.

[TRev]

Originally Posted by AustinTX

How many people are breaking axles on these cars? Seems far more likely in STX than in CS.

I have had a faint noise with mine for a couple months of races including Nationals. I bought an extra for travel but mine is still holding up so far.

[des]

Originally Posted by TRev

Thanks for that info Des. Do you know what the course was like?

Here are his vids from both cars:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eeky4UC2bQ"]AAA 110313 BMW - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tKSjYuMqvg"]AAA 110313 Z - YouTube[/ame]

In my FRS I was more than second behind him in the Z.

The previous day was a practice, so we did a lot of car-swapping and rides. My car was about as fast as Jeff's car -- still on its stock REO50as -- when the course was tight. When the course was loosened up, the Z took off.

We had a CS Solstice on hand that's taken a national championship or two, and got Tom Berry to take a few runs in it to give us something to shoot for. He got to 57 flat on ZIIs. Jeff got to 57.5 in the Z on the stock tires and to a 58.5 in my car on ZIIs.

My car is set up loose for our smallish local lots, but it's not like this was a worst case scenario. I touched the limiter in a couple of spots but never for long.

[simpleisbest]

On a course with a more than 1 tight and slow turn, the Z truly dominates CS. We just had a course at the end of last month were we had 4 of those turns (with some of them uphill, too!). Jeff's Z was pulling very impressive times. While we were on worn Rivals, I doubt that even with fresh rubber we would catch him. Most of his time advantage came on the exit of the slow corners. The torque and acceleration advantage is phenomenal!

[TRev]

I wrote a letter to the SEB with a recommendation to move the 370z to B Street as it seems like it replaced the MSR and Solstice as an over dog in the class. I included a link to the post Des made for reference. I realize it is only one data point....seems like a very telling one though. Looks like I definitely underestimated its potential.

[des]

Originally Posted by TRev

I wrote a letter to the SEB with a recommendation to move the 370z to B Street as it seems like it replaced the MSR and Solstice as an over dog in the class. I included a link to the post Des made for reference. I realize it is only one data point....seems like a very telling one though. Looks like I definitely underestimated its potential.

Trevor, I didn't share this at the time (though my conclusion is more or less the same as yours) for two reasons: First, there is a huge talent gap. He's a great driver, and he would beat me in pretty much any car. And second, it's not surprising when a talented driver does well in a decent car. Others I've seen show up in these cars have done OK but it doesn't seem to be a magic carpet.

Not saying that equal prep, equal drivers on Nats-style courses doesn't favor the Z, just that me getting trounced by a great driver is nothing new.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by des

Trevor, I didn't share this at the time (though my conclusion is more or less the same as yours) for two reasons: First, there is a huge talent gap. He's a great driver, and he would beat me in pretty much any car. And second, it's not surprising when a talented driver does well in a decent car. Others I've seen show up in these cars have done OK but it doesn't seem to be a magic carpet.

Not saying that equal prep, equal drivers on Nats-style courses doesn't favor the Z, just that me getting trounced by a great driver is nothing new.

Totally agree, Des. Sorry, I forgot to mention that there was a showroom stock 370Z also there that weekend on stock tires. Even with my new hot-shoe local driver, we were almost 0.5sec behind...It was a rough day, needless to say. I think it's mostly course related with the slow turns...but it just says that the Zs will be tough to beat.

[TRev]

Originally Posted by des

Not saying that equal prep, equal drivers on Nats-style courses doesn't favor the Z, just that me getting trounced by a great driver is nothing new.

Jeff drove your car though on Z2's vs his car on stock tires and ran a second slower or did I misunderstand? Has he ever driven a Twin before and do you know if he adapts quickly? How many runs did he take in your car?

Jeff in a C Street car on stock tires being .5 seconds off Berry on Z2's in a National winning Solstice. That doesn't seem enlightening it seems blinding.

[des]

Just one run. he'd have been a little closer with a few runs in the car, or it were better prepped.

Only one way to find out for sure, Trev. Come to LA and do the January event ... I'm sure we can dig you up a Twin to drive.