Edelbrock E-force Owner's thread and FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)

[Calum]

Originally Posted by toast

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=3357



You need to be able to weld or have someone make you an aluminum box with a vacuum nipple attached. Buy a second map sensor (they're like $20 for a plain one) put that in the manifold where the tmap sensor is and mount the tmap in the box. Connect box to the SC manifold in the back (either T the vacuum port that goes to the bypass valve or change the source of the bypass valve to the brake booster line and just run the manifold nipple right to the aluminum box). More involved but even better is to get a second tmap sensor, split the wiring harness so that the temperature comes from the sensor in the manifold and the pressure comes from the box.



The point is to get the pressure reading out of the intake runner - since it is a pipe with moving air and a periodic plug on one end (the intake valves) a resonance condition gets set up in the runner above 4k rpm. The tmap sees this and the ECU tries to adjust fueling *for all four cylinders* based on this. That wobble in pressure might be real for that cylinder but 1) the fueling response will have a phase delay and 2) the phase of the resonance in all the other cylinders will surely be wrong.



I can say this mod make the car feel a LOT better and when I shared this with Zach he sent me a new tune to take advantage of it and it then got even smoother.

Why a second tmap instead of a plain map sensor used for pressure reading only in the box?

[toast]

I wrote map sensor for the dummy.

Even better would be a second tmap in the runner and split the wiring to get the temp from the runner and the pressure from the one in the box.

Edit: I wrote all that in the post. Not sure where the confusion is coming from.

Edit 2: Now I see what you are asking. I wasn't sure about the response curve of a regular map sensor, figured if you are going to do it you should use the tmap in the box and put the cheap one in the runner as a plug.

[BirdTRD]

Originally Posted by BR-ZED

I am definitely interested in getting this to work eventually. But I think the first step will be to install my kit in the "default" config. Then, I hope to see if I can find a diagram to better understand everything you are saying. It makes sense, from what you said. but a picture / diagram would probably really help to see how everything is hooked up, being as how I haven't installed or even looked at the physical parts yet.

In preparation for the install, had a few questions:
1. Can I run till my next oil change interval with my existing 0w20 synthetic oil or should I upgrade, and what weight is recommended for this kit? The only other power mod I have is a catback.
2. Does Edelbrock ship (with the kit) the tool used to disconnect the fuel lines, or do I need to go find one of those tools? If so, any recommendations?
3. Are there any other odd/non-standard tools needed for install that I should look into acquiring ahead of time?

I'm definitely nervous to do the install myself, but that is one of the reasons why I am doing it myself - I want to get more experience, build my confidence, and learn. I've done almost all the work to my cars in the past - but mostly suspension (sway bars, coilovers, control arms, strut bars etc) and exhaust (downpipe/catback on my old WRX, and catback on the BRZ). Never something as elaborate as this. Am hoping it goes smoothly...

I want to thank you all in advance because I am sure I'll be asking a lot of questions...

As for oil, you will be fine as long as you don't immediately take it to the track and thrash it. Some people (including myself) run 5w-30.

Edelbrock does not supply you with any tools and the only "special" tool you will need a fuel line release tool like model 545 from www.company23.com. You can disconnect the fuel line with zip ties or other thin, stiff plastic but the actual tool makes it easier and it's cheap. (I might even lend you mine if you're close enough to the White Marsh area )

[jayjay06]

Originally Posted by BR-ZED

I am definitely interested in getting this to work eventually. But I think the first step will be to install my kit in the "default" config. Then, I hope to see if I can find a diagram to better understand everything you are saying. It makes sense, from what you said. but a picture / diagram would probably really help to see how everything is hooked up, being as how I haven't installed or even looked at the physical parts yet.

In preparation for the install, had a few questions:
1. Can I run till my next oil change interval with my existing 0w20 synthetic oil or should I upgrade, and what weight is recommended for this kit? The only other power mod I have is a catback.
2. Does Edelbrock ship (with the kit) the tool used to disconnect the fuel lines, or do I need to go find one of those tools? If so, any recommendations?
3. Are there any other odd/non-standard tools needed for install that I should look into acquiring ahead of time?

I'm definitely nervous to do the install myself, but that is one of the reasons why I am doing it myself - I want to get more experience, build my confidence, and learn. I've done almost all the work to my cars in the past - but mostly suspension (sway bars, coilovers, control arms, strut bars etc) and exhaust (downpipe/catback on my old WRX, and catback on the BRZ). Never something as elaborate as this. Am hoping it goes smoothly...

I want to thank you all in advance because I am sure I'll be asking a lot of questions...

New member, been lurking while I build out my Edelbrock. I just completed the install over the past two weekends (took my sweet time) and now in the tuning phase. I also did JR Dual Radiator/OC, DT Flex Fuel, Radium CC, trans/diff fluids, and fumoto valve while I was at it. I did it pretty much myself (little help from my kids) and am not that experienced either. It took a while, but I wasn't in a rush.

#1 Doing JR Dual Rad/OC so I did new oil. Went with Amsoil Signature 0w20
#2 Edelbrock did not come with the fuel tool, but the DT flex fuel kit did. There's a way to stick two zipties in to release it. Somewhere on this site there's a picture of that.
#3 Pretty much used standard tools listed in the kit. I had a hose clamp tool which helped removing some clamps, but mostly used worm/screw clamps on everything going back in. Wish I would have had a good set of ratcheting wrenches for a couple of things. I did get a spill free funnel as noted in the instructions and I ended up buying a relatively cheap block and tackle pulley as in lockdown here couldn't get anyone over to help me lift in place (any my family was too weak)! haha



Two other things to check before install.
1. There was an incorrect M8 washer (bag #1) that holds the pulley on the alternator bracket (step 88) put into the kit. I called tech support and they told me that a few kits were put together and the person assembling grabbed from the wrong bin. Anyway they sent it out. It was pretty obvious when assembling as the washer provided was smaller than the pulley bearing. The incorrect washer was a standard thickness washer, but the correct one was like 1/8" thick and bigger diameter.

2. I didn't seem to get the K/N filter grease for Step 149 in the kit. I just ordered it off amazon cause I didn't want to call tech support again and it was like $6.

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by jayjay06

New member, been lurking while I build out my Edelbrock. I just completed the install over the past two weekends (took my sweet time) and now in the tuning phase. I also did JR Dual Radiator/OC, DT Flex Fuel, Radium CC, trans/diff fluids, and fumoto valve while I was at it. I did it pretty much myself (little help from my kids) and am not that experienced either. It took a while, but I wasn't in a rush.
-----

Two other things to check before install.
1. There was an incorrect M8 washer (bag #1) that holds the pulley on the alternator bracket (step 88) put into the kit. I called tech support and they told me that a few kits were put together and the person assembling grabbed from the wrong bin. Anyway they sent it out. It was pretty obvious when assembling as the washer provided was smaller than the pulley bearing. The incorrect washer was a standard thickness washer, but the correct one was like 1/8" thick and bigger diameter.

2. I didn't seem to get the K/N filter grease for Step 149 in the kit. I just ordered it off amazon cause I didn't want to call tech support again and it was like $6.

Had the same missing parts in my Kit. Looked all over for the missing washer before deciding they just put the wrong one in the kit.
Also didn't come with the filter grease. Does anyone know if this is really "required" to work properly?

Overall my brother and I were able to install it in ~7hrs BSing as brothers do.
Waiting on Delicious for my tune, first tune they sent me was not compatible with my ECU. Tried the CARB tune, but it was not behaving well at all. My assumption right now is due to my FT86 UEL headers, but honestly not sure.
No idle issues and pulls real hard until about 4k then it just kinda meh. My hope is the tune will fix that problem.

[BR-ZED]

@BirdTRD - thanks for that! Ordered one of the tools. i am not super close to you, maybe 45 min away. Not sure if you remember me but I drove up there ~2+ years ago to check out the kit and got a ride in your car. Actually that is what convinced me to (eventually) pull the trigger on ordering a kit. Took a while. i was on the fence for years, then built the car into an STX car with suspension/wheels/tires but eventually life got so busy that I realized that I would never have time to compete for an STX title again, so figured I'd just put the car in SM and have fun :-)

@jayjay06 thanks for the info. It is encouraging. Would like more info on that pulley you used. The previous owner of my house welded in 3 I-beams in the garage (two vertical ones and one horizontal. He had an engine hoist mounted to it but took that with him when he moved. but basically there is a large steel I beam overhead that I could potentially attach something to. Thought previously about using that to tie up the SC and carefully lower it into place. That is one of the steps I am most worried about doing esp. with regard to the integrity of that gasket.



@Glitch thanks for the info as well. Seeing that there are 172 steps that means you guys averaged 1 step per 2.4 minutes. That seems really, really fast....Thinking about it that way made me think it would take me at least 16 hours to do this... I never work very fast in the garage and take my time. Unfortunately I don't have much time these days to do things, so we'll see....


Looking over the parts list, it looks like I'm missing a few things -
- brake fluid (need to look into why that's needed)
- rivet nut tool (I assume any generic one works?)
- side cutters (i have a miserable assortment of tools like this and crappy pliers. Need to order a set since I've been using crappy hand me downs for years)
- blue thread locker - do people generally use these for all bolts?
- o-ring lube? Any suggestions for this?


@jayjay06 @Glitch Since you guys got your kit recently, did you have the new bypass valve? I see my system shipped from Missouri I believe so am hoping they gave me one with the fix.

Also how is Edelbrock technical service? I emailed them days ago a few questions and haven't heard back. Maybe they are better to just call?

[jayjay06]

Originally Posted by BR-ZED

@jayjay06 thanks for the info. It is encouraging. Would like more info on that pulley you used. The previous owner of my house welded in 3 I-beams in the garage (two vertical ones and one horizontal. He had an engine hoist mounted to it but took that with him when he moved. but basically there is a large steel I beam overhead that I could potentially attach something to. Thought previously about using that to tie up the SC and carefully lower it into place. That is one of the steps I am most worried about doing esp. with regard to the integrity of that gasket.

Looking over the parts list, it looks like I'm missing a few things -
- brake fluid (need to look into why that's needed)
- rivet nut tool (I assume any generic one works?)
- side cutters (i have a miserable assortment of tools like this and crappy pliers. Need to order a set since I've been using crappy hand me downs for years)
- blue thread locker - do people generally use these for all bolts?
- o-ring lube? Any suggestions for this?


@jayjay06 @Glitch Since you guys got your kit recently, did you have the new bypass valve? I see my system shipped from Missouri I believe so am hoping they gave me one with the fix.

Also how is Edelbrock technical service? I emailed them days ago a few questions and haven't heard back. Maybe they are better to just call?

Here's the pulley/hoist. It's fairly cheap but got the job done: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have a pull up bar bolted into 2x12 rafters:


-Brake Fluid I used about a tablespoon of this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
-Didn't have the part that needed to be moved for the rivet tool.
-Blue thread locker yes ordered on amazon, used on things that I thought would vibrate or had a seal...intake manifold, throttle body bolts, fuel injector rail, alternator/pulley mounts, ac compressor ect.
-o-ring lube - I think the Delicious kit, or the injectors came with a tiny tube of Super Lube o-ring ptfe grease. One tube was enough for the injectors, fuel pump (part of flex fuel upgrade), throttle seal, manifold seals, and Maf oring. These look to be them: https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-Pu...l%2C208&sr=1-5
-Yes new bypass on mine, and came from Missouri too I believe (somewhere midwest)
-For support not sure on email as I called in and was on with Tony in about 5 min. He was great, gave a thorough explanation. Asked me if I needed anything else besides the washer I was missing shipped out (didn't realize the K/N grease was missing then)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Glitch

Had the same missing parts in my Kit. Looked all over for the missing washer before deciding they just put the wrong one in the kit.
Also didn't come with the filter grease. Does anyone know if this is really "required" to work properly?

Overall my brother and I were able to install it in ~7hrs BSing as brothers do.
Waiting on Delicious for my tune, first tune they sent me was not compatible with my ECU. Tried the CARB tune, but it was not behaving well at all. My assumption right now is due to my FT86 UEL headers, but honestly not sure.
No idle issues and pulls real hard until about 4k then it just kinda meh. My hope is the tune will fix that problem.

Zach can get you a tune in 72 business hours max, although he's typically much, much faster than that.

[toast]

Originally Posted by Glitch

No idle issues and pulls real hard until about 4k then it just kinda meh. My hope is the tune will fix that problem.

Yeah, that is the tune. When it is working it pulls hard all the way to redline, especially if it can breathe with headers.

I wouldn't go running any WOT pulls until you get something from your tuner. Typically they want a couple logs of warm up and idle and then a modest pull up to 5k. They will tell you to ramp it up from there as they get the tune dialed in.

[BirdTRD]

Originally Posted by BR-ZED

@BirdTRD - thanks for that! Ordered one of the tools. i am not super close to you, maybe 45 min away. Not sure if you remember me but I drove up there ~2+ years ago to check out the kit and got a ride in your car. Actually that is what convinced me to (eventually) pull the trigger on ordering a kit. Took a while. i was on the fence for years, then built the car into an STX car with suspension/wheels/tires but eventually life got so busy that I realized that I would never have time to compete for an STX title again, so figured I'd just put the car in SM and have fun :-)

I do vaguely remember but I'm old and my memory sucks so there's that.
Let me know if you need any assistance with it, I'd be happy to help.

[devtec]

Here is how I did the MAP sensor relocation away from the edelbrock intake runner. No welding.

First, I ordered this:
https://diftech.com/products/frs-brz...hoCBq8QAvD_BwE

It's intended to add a port to the intake manifold to attach something like a pressure/boost sensor by mounting to the existing intake port and just adding an extra nipple. It has two open ports, one to go into the existing manifold port, and the other to attach to an elbow which has another nipple on it.

In this case, however, we're just using the DIFTECH port as a way to mount the MAP sensor away from the intake manifold and just see the pressure inside the manifold from an attached hose.

Thanks to toast's idea, we can get that pressure from the nipple at the back of the supercharger. This port is what is used to control the bypass actuator we all know and hate. (Incidentally, I did install the updated bypass actuator, which is working well after a few thousand miles). To get pressure from this port you just need a vacuum T (1/4" x 1/4") to split the line. Supercharger port goes the the vacuum T, which then splits into a line leading to the bypass actuator as usual, and the other line which leads to the new DIFTECH port with the MAP sensor mounted to it. You don't really need a box like what toast made, just a simple line for the MAP sensor to see the pressure inside the supercharger.

Turns out this DIFTECH port is made for the stock MAP sensor. I had forgotten that the edelbrock kit comes with it's own MAP sensor, which has different dimensions and actually does not fit into the DIFTECH port. So in somewhat of a pain, I had to go to a machine shop to enlarge the port where the MAP sensor inserts, to a diameter of 12mm (please recheck this to be sure). The edelbrock MAP sensor also has a longer snout that the stock MAP, so the machine shop also fashioned a little spacer (you could also just use washers, same number around snout and mounting bolt for MAP sensor).

Use an old MAP sensor to plug the hole in the edelbrock manifold, or any other way you want of covering up this hole.

See pics. First shows the DIFTECH port and how the lines run. Second shows how the vacuum line comes off the T and leads to the bypass actuator. Third pic shows a rubber vacuum cap over the unused port on the DIFTECH.

You can get all these accessory parts (1/4" vacuum hose, vacuum cap, 1/4" vacuum T, and clamps) at O'Reillys. You can mount the setup with a ziptie however you want.

Hope this is clear.

I highly, highly recommend that all of you do something like this. The difference in driveability is significant. The smooth and controllable throttle tip in makes driving a pleasure when starting from a stop and shifting. Butt dyno says there's also a little more power. Overall with the delicious tune and this mod, the car is running like a champ, and way smoother than stock ever was. I did unhook the D-box, which was giving me problems and is probably no longer needed. Good luck!

[jayjay06]

Originally Posted by devtec

Here is how I did the MAP sensor relocation away from the edelbrock intake runner. No welding.

So two questions:
1. Couldn't you run the diftech box to the boost gauge port next to the bypass port and if you add a boost gauge run it off the diftech extra port?
2. Have D-box with FF kit...would moving the map require retune?


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Decep]

Probably just a good Zach tune, but i'm not sure what these driveability problems are you guys are talking about. Runs like stock even when grannying it around town, just get a big bump of torque at 2500 rpm.

[devtec]

Originally Posted by jayjay06

So two questions:
1. Couldn't you run the diftech box to the boost gauge port next to the bypass port and if you add a boost gauge run it off the diftech extra port?
2. Have D-box with FF kit...would moving the map require retune?


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

1. Definitely. Using the boost gauge port would be the cleaner setup! I just didn't do it yet since I was just testing things. Will order this and get rid of the T.

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Aluminu...6X7FZPXYE&th=1

2. I did not require a tune. Car adjusted a bit for about a minute after install, then ran great. Will be checking logs soon.