BRZ vs S2000 vs Cayman S (my take)

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Man, the NC's are just a great deal now that the NA/NB's have appreciated in value so much. Honestly, I'm not a huge advocate of the 2.5L swap, simply because you go from a completely forged internal motor (09+) to a commuter engine with mostly cast parts. The 09+ NC's handle boost really well with street cars doing up to 400 whp stock block, and reliable track cars doing 250-300 whp. The early transmissions can be the weak link at those power levels though.

I have noticed that the cost of NA/NB have gotten significantly more expensive. Does FM make a turbo kit for the NC? What other boost options are there? I have not read about the 2.5L too much but is it a drop in affair that uses OEM engine mounts? Basically, it just places the factory 2.0L?

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by gtpvette

I am so glad you posted this. In the current C&D they posted a dot chart where dots were price of cars versus times, the same dot chart as in this article. What I wanted to know was what were the 4 models of the light blue dots ($35k-$64K) in the sub 2:55 class. Now I know.

Mustang Shelby GT350R 2016
Corvette 2014
Mustang PP2 2018
Camaro SS 1LE 2017

That base C7 beat a lot of higher priced hardware!!!

That Camaro SS 1LE 2017 isn’t a V6.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Petah78

I have noticed that the cost of NA/NB have gotten significantly more expensive. Does FM make a turbo kit for the NC? What other boost options are there? I have not read about the 2.5L too much but is it a drop in affair that uses OEM engine mounts? Basically, it just places the factory 2.0L?

FM does not make a turbo kit for the NC. Unfortunately the work required to make the 2.5L work in the NC is WAY more than say swapping a 1.8L VVT engine into a NA Miata. Here's all that needs to be done:

1. Remove oil pan, valve cover, intake manifold, all accessories from 2.5L
2. Remove sensor between cyl 2/3
3. Transfer VVT solenoid gasket from 2.5L valve cover to 2.0L valve cover
4. Install balance shaft delete plug and delete balance shaft
5. Cut notch on timing cover
6. Port match the intake manifold runners via dremel or grinder and use RTV to seal cylinder head
7. Transfer 2.0L accessories, wire harness, motor mounts to 2.5L
8. Swap VVT solenoid connector
9. Transfer crank pulley, replace diamond washers
10. Install clutch/flywheel

That's ONLY the required things to get the swap working let alone refining it. IDK to me it seems like a lot of work for 7 HP and some torque. Not to mention, now you have an engine without a balance shaft (I'm actually a powertrain NVH guy so this is a big deal to me haha). Fab9 tuning has probably the most complete FI kit on the market in my opinion.

Has anyone suggested a late model RX8 for the OP yet? Honestly the 09+ cars have much better reliability and at least I find that a similarly prepped RX8 is just as if not a slight bit faster than a FT86 with similar mods. There's a local guy that's in near SCCA TT T4 spec that's like a few tenths faster than me, granted he does have a small street port.

Originally Posted by Tokay444

That Camaro SS 1LE 2017 isn’t a V6.

I think his point was that there was four vehicles that outperformed their price bracket by magnitudes - one of those being the SS 1LE which share the same chassis as the V6 model.

[e1_griego]

VVT swap into an NA is mostly just wiring work, and requires expensive aftermarket ecu.

I think a 2.5 swap NC is easier and ultimately is probably a better car to run. (source:I have a VVT swapped 97 miata). NC fits bigger tire, more modern chassis, and 2.5 motor is cheap and easy.

If you're talking about an NC, though, that's spitting distance to an ft86...

The kit that I really wish existed was 2.5 swap for rx8 but that is nowhere near bolt-in.

[WolfpackS2k]

Fellas, please chill with the Miata conversations. Somewhat interesting, but I'm not buying a Miata. Not interested.

Put an offer in on a gorgeous and meticulously maintained C63 Friday. Owner said he wanted to think about it over the weekend. Sunday night he called me and said he changed his mind and just can't sell. Loves the car too much.

This is the 3rd car for sale in the last few months that I've shown serious interest in, to only have the owner change their minds because they love the cars too much.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Fellas, please chill with the Miata conversations. Somewhat interesting, but I'm not buying a Miata. Not interested.



Put an offer in on a gorgeous and meticulously maintained C63 Friday. Owner said he wanted to think about it over the weekend. Sunday night he called me and said he changed his mind and just can't sell. Loves the car too much.



This is the 3rd car for sale in the last few months that I've shown serious interest in, to only have the owner change their minds because they love the cars too much.

Well it sounds like you know what you want. Just gotta be patient. Keep searching and you will find it.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Code Monkey]

E92 M3? 8,300 redline + can get it in manual.

[WolfpackS2k]

^It's just not ticking the right boxes for me.

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Well it sounds like you know what you want. Just gotta be patient. Keep searching and you will find it.

Oh I didn't say 3rd C63 AMG

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

^It's just not ticking the right boxes for me.







Oh I didn't say 3rd C63 AMG

EDITED

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by gtpvette

I am so glad you posted this. In the current C&D they posted a dot chart where dots were price of cars versus times, the same dot chart as in this article. What I wanted to know was what were the 4 models of the light blue dots ($35k-$64K) in the sub 2:55 class. Now I know.

Mustang Shelby GT350R 2016
Corvette 2014
Mustang PP2 2018
Camaro SS 1LE 2017

That base C7 beat a lot of higher priced hardware!!!

Pricing brackets make little to no sense.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

Ah, one of these guys.

The V6 Camaro w/ 1LE absolutely destroys our cars by an LOL 14+ seconds in car and drivers lightening lap competition (https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/). Actually, it beats our cars by every single performance metric available. Lol indeed.

That's not really a good point. Pretty much anything with power can wreck our cars on that track layout. I bet 5000 pound v8 SUV's could beat the twins time.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Fellas, please chill with the Miata conversations.

No worries. The reason it comes up so often is it's just by far the closest thing to the twins on the market today.

Originally Posted by why?

That's not really a good point. Pretty much anything with power can wreck our cars on that track layout. I bet 5000 pound v8 SUV's could beat the twins time.

Well, they did lol. Looks like the Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and the Lamborghini Urus beat the twins by way more than 10 seconds. But yeah, VIR is a different track than most of the others around the USA so take it with a grain of salt for sure.

[WolfpackS2k]

But VIR is my home track, so it's certainly relevant to me!

Also nobody should care what a 5000 lb car can do around a track. (car or SUV). The brakes and tires will be cooked within a few laps and/or need to be replaced. It's just folly.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

No worries. The reason it comes up so often is it's just by far the closest thing to the twins on the market today.



Well, they did lol. Looks like the Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and the Lamborghini Urus beat the twins by way more than 10 seconds. But yeah, VIR is a different track than most of the others around the USA so take it with a grain of salt for sure.

It's just a power track.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

But VIR is my home track, so it's certainly relevant to me!

Also nobody should care what a 5000 lb car can do around a track. (car or SUV). The brakes and tires will be cooked within a few laps and/or need to be replaced. It's just folly.

It's really close to me, but don't they change configurations a lot? I need to go some day.