D4S Delete? I'm dead serious.

[TeamZleep]

So, Shot in the dark, but I wonder if it's possible to make direct injector block-offs, remove the D4S, and run the FA20 as a port injection-only car. Flame suit on, but if the port injector sizing and tune are setup properly, I don't see why it wouldn't make the same amount of power, just with a small hit on MPG. I've just never been a fan of Direct Injection (I come from the VW world), and I'm curious if anyone has even attempted it.






Honestly, if a reputable shop wanted to take the plunge, I'd happily hand over my car for the better part of 6 months to see what can be done.

[JimmyMac]

Hmmmm, correct me if I'm wrong but you might have to reduce timing due to the loss of the cooling effect of the DI system and high compression.

[suaveflooder]

You'll also loose HP. Without the DI, this engine was pretty pathetic from what I've heard. Toyota's DI is the only reason why the car made it to 200 crank hp

[TeamZleep]

Well, that's a pile of suck. I just hate the living worry about the DI failing... But I'm still enjoying the car to it's fullest... If the engine dies, and the dealer won't cover it, I'll look into my options then.

[EAGLE5]

I'm 99% sure this can all be done in tuning software. You'll just completely ruin the power of the car. I also seem to remember somebody mentioning overheating issues with port-only injection.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by TeamZleep

Well, that's a pile of suck. I just hate the living worry about the DI failing... But I'm still enjoying the car to it's fullest... If the engine dies, and the dealer won't cover it, I'll look into my options then.

There have been very few dead engines, and they were pretty much all from intensely driven cars. It also sounds like the owners had knock for a while and didn't act, or the dealers didn't deal with the issue before it snowballed. This compares to the TDI issue where lots of pumps were grenading and ruining engines. You're just being worried over nothing. You can also get a tune to get rid of the issue or run 93+ octane to insure it's good.

[Entropy]

For a fully built turbo engine (north of 450 hp), I'd drop the D4S like a rock. At those power levels, its really not adding anything as the injectors and pump are too small, and your stuck with the stock (flashed) ECU. For a bolt-on/tuned NA motor, though, its really not worth removing.

Similar to the VANOS in BMW engines. It's really not worth removing until you've fully committed to a big HP build, at which time people ditch the VANOS system all together.

[EAGLE5]

Then you lose a shit ton of cooling from DI. You either have to retard timing a lot or drop the compression. DI is gooooooood. Just upgrade the ports and keep the DI maxed out.

Originally Posted by Entropy

For a fully built turbo engine (north of 450 hp), I'd drop the D4S like a rock. At those power levels, its really not adding anything as the injectors and pump are too small, and your stuck with the stock (flashed) ECU. For a bolt-on/tuned NA motor, though, its really not worth removing.

Similar to the VANOS in BMW engines. It's really not worth removing until you've fully committed to a big HP build, at which time people ditch the VANOS system all together.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Entropy

For a fully built turbo engine (north of 450 hp), I'd drop the D4S like a rock. At those power levels, its really not adding anything as the injectors and pump are too small, and your stuck with the stock (flashed) ECU. For a bolt-on/tuned NA motor, though, its really not worth removing.

Similar to the VANOS in BMW engines. It's really not worth removing until you've fully committed to a big HP build, at which time people ditch the VANOS system all together.

Any examples of this? I'm part of M3 forums and came from an E46 M3. I've never heard of anyone ditching the VANOS. I'm actually interested. I love learning new things! :happy0180:

[uspspro]

DI cooling effect is really amplified if using E85 as well.

[ft_sjo]

@suaveflooder Most people who ditch that stuff don't understand it and/or have a tuner who can't map for shit.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by TeamZleep

Well, that's a pile of suck. I just hate the living worry about the DI failing... But I'm still enjoying the car to it's fullest... If the engine dies, and the dealer won't cover it, I'll look into my options then.

You track your car? If the answer is no, don't worry about it. If you do, keep the car 100% stock and take it in if there is an issue. Even CSG_Mike got his first motor replaced under warranty. Out of the tens of thousands of FRS's, BRZ's built....there are few with an issue.

I'm not saying it isn't an issue, just that you shouldn't worry about it. It's forum fever. It'll always look worse here.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

@suaveflooder Most people who ditch that stuff don't understand it and/or have a tuner who can't map for shit.

I can get that. The engine is still REALLY new. I do remember reading that originally the numbers were even more pathetic than they are now without the DI. Could be complete hear say, but considering that there are quite a few companies going DI, there is no reason to ditch it IMHO. :happy0180:

[ft_sjo]

Every manufacturer is going DI. It's the only way to get emissions down and remain competitive.

My comment was more around people ditching stuff like VANOS.