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Old 05-15-2019, 01:14 PM   #43
showrun
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I've got 5 track days and 20K miles of commuting on the stockers. They are about done so this thread is relevant to me. It's finally hot enough (on the brakes hard enough?) that I've felt them go greasy. If your ok with not getting griptastic ~200tw tires the dilemma becomes finding a hard/street tire that doesn't go away when it's hot. Nobody talks about that because we all buy "track day tires" for the track.


I'd love to know if the traditional summer street tires like the PS4S or Continental equivalent will hold up to the heat generated by a stock powered 86 without the grip giving out and me wasting a 7/10th lap to get them to come back.
For me, if I wasn't going to get a 200TW tire, it would be the PS4S. Everything I hear is that it's the best 80% street 20% track tire out there.
However, a lot of people who daily their car drive on 200TW all Summer long, so why not do that?
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:56 PM   #44
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I've got 5 track days and 20K miles of commuting on the stockers. They are about done so this thread is relevant to me. It's finally hot enough (on the brakes hard enough?) that I've felt them go greasy. If your ok with not getting griptastic ~200tw tires the dilemma becomes finding a hard/street tire that doesn't go away when it's hot. Nobody talks about that because we all buy "track day tires" for the track.


I'd love to know if the traditional summer street tires like the PS4S or Continental equivalent will hold up to the heat generated by a stock powered 86 without the grip giving out and me wasting a 7/10th lap to get them to come back.

^^ what he said.

Id rather have a tire that is consistent over the entire session even if it sacrifices some ultimate grip. Its not a race, I could care less if Im 1 second slower per lap.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:31 PM   #45
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3) More grip than stock tire. The stock tire squeals so much that I can't use sound as an indicator of grip. And I find myself wanting to carry more speed in a corner but can't. And I find myself braking too early and too softly because I don't trust the tire.
IMO, this comes down to how big your balls are.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:53 PM   #46
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For me, if I wasn't going to get a 200TW tire, it would be the PS4S. Everything I hear is that it's the best 80% street 20% track tire out there.
However, a lot of people who daily their car drive on 200TW all Summer long, so why not do that?




Three reasons;
  1. It defeats the purpose of learning in a lower grip environment.
  2. Hankooks or Azenis probably won't last more than 10k miles with the 6 track days I plan on doing the rest of this season. It's not a deal breaker but I put 20k miles a year on my car. For me, it's a factor.
  3. The added grip is going to necessitate a pad upgrade from the Hawk HPS that are barely holding on to something completely non streatable.
I'm not completely against swapping pads and wheels/tires if I have too. It's a slippery slope that I'd like to avoid. If PS4S's can hold together for a 25min session on a 90+ degree day the great.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:31 PM   #47
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I'd love to know if the traditional summer street tires like the PS4S or Continental equivalent will hold up to the heat generated by a stock powered 86 without the grip giving out and me wasting a 7/10th lap to get them to come back.
From what I hear no, they will overheat if you are capable of driving them at their limits for a sustained period of time.

Seems to me that the go to right now is GT Radial Champiro SX2 which overtook the Bridgestone RE11 which seems to be out of production now. Based on your other comments seems like it's a good fit, 6 track days and 10k miles might be a bit of a stretch but they're cheap enough that hopefully it doesn't break the bank. Their popularity is driven by sponsorship of 86Cup but I don't hear too many complaints of them greasing up and the reviews are all about how durable they are.

I'd suggest Ferodo DS2500 to replace the Hawks once they're gone, good hybrid pad, I'm happy DD'ing mine but I have Carbotechs for the track.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #48
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For me, if I wasn't going to get a 200TW tire, it would be the PS4S. Everything I hear is that it's the best 80% street 20% track tire out there.
However, a lot of people who daily their car drive on 200TW all Summer long, so why not do that?
The AD08R is a very good all year tire for our NW weather. It is very consistent on track and very forgiving WRT air pressures and lasts much longer than most 200TW tires. And itís a lot of fun at the limit so you can have fun learning on the edge.

Itís my fave 200TW tire. It isnít the fastest but for me the best all around tire.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:57 PM   #49
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I don't have experience with the PS4S, but had a set of PSS.

I had trouble running enough camber to keep the PSS from wearing the outer shoulder for track use. Had -3.5 in front and the tires had to be replaced due to the wear on the outer quarter - the rest of the tire had tread left. The PSS would get greasy if pushed hard and I'd have to back off during a session and cool them down.

I hear the PS4S are better than the PSS in terms of shoulder wear (Track friend with a Camaro uses them for daily/track use - the PSS was bad with shoulder wear, the PS4S improves that situation for him, didn't solve it).

I was contemplating other suspension changes (beyond RCE Yellows+camber plates/bolts) to help even out the tire wear. However, both the wear and overheating issue went away with SX2s. The SX2s lated as long as the PSS if not longer since I could use the whole tire.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:04 AM   #50
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I've had a set of PS4S, AD08Rs, and now RS4s. Of the three, so far my favorite has been the AD08Rs but I haven't put the RS4s on track yet. The PS4S is a fantastic street tire, but it just can't hold up to consistent track abuse at all. I had serious problems with chunking and weird shoulder wear tracking on the PS4S, but I will admit it did much better than I expected. If you're doing 6 track days a year you'll be bankrupting yourself buying Michelins. The AD08Rs were the cheapest decent 200tw when I got them, and the RS4s were cheaper this go around. For street/track hybrid role, 200tw summer tires seem to be where it's at, at least here in Texas.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:45 AM   #51
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I don't have experience with the PS4S, but had a set of PSS.

I had trouble running enough camber to keep the PSS from wearing the outer shoulder for track use. Had -3.5 in front and the tires had to be replaced due to the wear on the outer quarter - the rest of the tire had tread left. The PSS would get greasy if pushed hard and I'd have to back off during a session and cool them down.

I hear the PS4S are better than the PSS in terms of shoulder wear (Track friend with a Camaro uses them for daily/track use - the PSS was bad with shoulder wear, the PS4S improves that situation for him, didn't solve it).

I was contemplating other suspension changes (beyond RCE Yellows+camber plates/bolts) to help even out the tire wear. However, both the wear and overheating issue went away with SX2s. The SX2s lated as long as the PSS if not longer since I could use the whole tire.

Where are you buying SX2's? Do they have the soft shoulder compounds like the PSS/PS4S. The Camaro has double wishbones so maybe a better camber curve then our parts bin cars.

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I've had a set of PS4S, AD08Rs, and now RS4s. Of the three, so far my favorite has been the AD08Rs but I haven't put the RS4s on track yet. The PS4S is a fantastic street tire, but it just can't hold up to consistent track abuse at all. I had serious problems with chunking and weird shoulder wear tracking on the PS4S, but I will admit it did much better than I expected. If you're doing 6 track days a year you'll be bankrupting yourself buying Michelins. The AD08Rs were the cheapest decent 200tw when I got them, and the RS4s were cheaper this go around. For street/track hybrid role, 200tw summer tires seem to be where it's at, at least here in Texas.


I may be resigning myself to the 200tw track day reality. 225/45/17 200tw options


Falken Azenis 615K+ $129x4=$513
Bridgestone R-S4 $158x4=$630
Yokohama AD08R $211x4$800+


Glad I'm not driving a corvette. I could see myself getting some Falken's and wearing them out by late October. That would delay having to buy wheels until spring 2020. Shame to kill such nice tires commuting.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:23 PM   #52
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Where are you buying SX2's? Do they have the soft shoulder compounds like the PSS/PS4S. The Camaro has double wishbones so maybe a better camber curve then our parts bin cars.
I was buying them on-line wherever was cheapest. One set from Simpletire, another set from ebay (performance plus tires IIRC), but lately tire crawler is the only place that seems to have them reliably. That's where GTRadial referred me to. Benefit is the tire crawler tires are recent production - the ebay ones were from 2013.

They don't have a different compound on the shoulder - it's the same across the tire AFIAK. They are not the best tires in the wet, but if memory serves they are as good as the stock primacy tires.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:43 PM   #53
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I've read a lot about the RE 71R. My understanding is that it is very fast, but only for a very short amount of time before overheating. Great for ax, time attack and such, less so for 20-30 minute sessions. And they last 1-2 days. Has your experience been different?
My experience with them is pretty much exactly how you are describing. Iíve got through about 6 sets of RE71Rís.

For session heat cycling Iíd say you have about 15 mins before tire starts cooking. Total track time Iím averaging about 6 hours of track time. Typically though I abuse the tire and run about 20mins sessions until the tire is unusable and let it cool off for about 15-20mins before heading out again. By the end of the day the tires are ready for recycling.

What tires are you guys typically using for endurance sessions? I donít mind sacrificing time for some consistent longevity. I went with the RE71Rís since thatís what most local people said were the track tire of choice and Iíve just stuck with them.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:54 PM   #54
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I was buying them on-line wherever was cheapest. One set from Simpletire, another set from ebay (performance plus tires IIRC), but lately tire crawler is the only place that seems to have them reliably. That's where GTRadial referred me to. Benefit is the tire crawler tires are recent production - the ebay ones were from 2013.

They don't have a different compound on the shoulder - it's the same across the tire AFIAK. They are not the best tires in the wet, but if memory serves they are as good as the stock primacy tires.
My 2 cents: I've been running SX2s track and street in California for over a year now. They seem about the same as the stock tires in wet, reliable on track, and last a long time. Also, it's nice to compare my lap times to 86CUP/86DRIVE.

I bought the full set online for like $200, I think from Simpletire. They're from 2015 but they work fine. They're definitely best bang for the buck, and I have no complaints.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:55 PM   #55
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I've got 5 track days and 20K miles of commuting on the stockers. They are about done so this thread is relevant to me. It's finally hot enough (on the brakes hard enough?) that I've felt them go greasy. If your ok with not getting griptastic ~200tw tires the dilemma becomes finding a hard/street tire that doesn't go away when it's hot. Nobody talks about that because we all buy "track day tires" for the track.


I'd love to know if the traditional summer street tires like the PS4S or Continental equivalent will hold up to the heat generated by a stock powered 86 without the grip giving out and me wasting a 7/10th lap to get them to come back.
They will all overheat.

The SX2 isn't the fastest tire, but they're cheap, and have FANTASTIC life. Unbeatable training tire. Street compound on a R-compound carcass.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:30 PM   #56
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Ok, I'm ordering some SX2. What's the best size for a completely stock FRS (with good brake pads)?
225/45 on 17x8 wheel?
Or something wider? On a 17x9?
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