follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Xero Limit
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions

Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-09-2020, 03:38 PM   #267
weederr33
Airborne at your service
 
weederr33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: '17 BRZ Series.Yellow
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,723
Thanks: 2,634
Thanked 2,178 Times in 1,293 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
I'm sure big tuner names like HKS and GEeddy will pop out some parts for the GR Yaris and Corolla. It would be nice to see some aftermarket support. Hell TOMS is doing it with the regular Corolla hatchback lol
__________________
Series.Yellowbird - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122135

MS, CSCS, TSAC-F, CPT
weederr33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 03:43 PM   #268
strat61caster
Thread Killer
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,346
Thanks: 12,686
Thanked 8,468 Times in 4,436 Posts
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD001 View Post
The "hot" Corolla will be competing with the Focus ST.. However, if Ford hadn't cancelled the next gen RS then who knows?? You may have got your AWD GR Corolla..
The US Focus was canned two years ago. There's no 2019 or 2020 models in the US and so far no inkling of a 2021 model.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 06:14 PM   #269
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,454
Thanks: 2,092
Thanked 1,837 Times in 1,146 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
The US Focus was canned two years ago. There's no 2019 or 2020 models in the US and so far no inkling of a 2021 model.
It probably got canned when I lighter and cheaper Civic Type R bested the RS, proving AWD just isn't always better, especially on the street.

That, and the dealer markups destroyed sales.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 06:18 PM   #270
JD001
Senior Member
 
JD001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Drives: Subaru BRZ
Location: UK
Posts: 4,444
Thanks: 4,944
Thanked 3,809 Times in 2,242 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
It probably got canned when I lighter and cheaper Civic Type R bested the RS, proving AWD just isn't always better, especially on the street.

That, and the dealer markups destroyed sales.
We have tuning houses in the UK turning out RS's with circa 520bhp.. you can't do that with a front wheel drive..
JD001 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JD001 For This Useful Post:
why? (05-09-2020)
Old 05-09-2020, 08:04 PM   #271
why?
Only happy when it rains.
 
why?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Drives: series.blue
Location: Harnett county NC
Posts: 1,873
Thanks: 5,043
Thanked 1,102 Times in 681 Posts
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
300 bhp (at the crank), I agree, should be possible with some bolt ons and e85.
300 whp I'll bet against, that's almost what the wrc car puts out, someone will try and I bet it blows.

They can't make a profit overbuilding the engine compared to the wrc version. I guarantee it has cheaper pistons and rods and a less aggressive cam, I wouldn't be surprised if the wrc cars have intakes/exhausts sculpted by hand and checked on flow benches while the consumer products will make sacrifices for mass production.


Please show me the +20hp header without a tune, I must have missed that one.

There will be so few of these made that the aftermarket will be weak aside from stuff that can be easily brought over like coilovers due to shared tnga components.

the wrc version has a massive restrictor. They made it 3 mm bigger and it added 70 hp. Unrestricted it could put out stupid power.


The wrc version is hand built and I am sure they use every trick in the world to strengthen everything. It will not be anything near that. I mean compared to a normal street engine.



There is a lot they cannot change because of homologation rules, so that helps in a lot of different ways. You are also assuming the rating they are advertising now is what the car actually has at the crank. Who knows if that is true, but it seems most turbocharged cars understate their actual power.
why? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 08:22 PM   #272
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,454
Thanks: 2,092
Thanked 1,837 Times in 1,146 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD001 View Post
We have tuning houses in the UK turning out RS's with circa 520bhp.. you can't do that with a front wheel drive..
Well you can. You just probably won't be getting much traction on the street, but then again, 520hp in most light weight cars will have a problem. I'm in the 300's, and I have problems in my 86, but yeah, AWD could be nice then,

https://www.motor1.com/news/129113/h...r-mile-record/



Good read:

https://jalopnik.com/how-to-be-fast-...lai-1795906825

The other thing was the K20C1 engine is pretty bad ass, but the RS engine was known for head gasket problems, among others, which probably hurt some sales.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...-k20c1-engine/
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
JD001 (05-10-2020)
Old 05-09-2020, 08:50 PM   #273
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 168
Thanks: 53
Thanked 107 Times in 71 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
We also have to understand the physics behind making power. Torque production is directly correlated to in-cylinder dynamic pressure. Meaning for a 3 cylinder to make the same torque as a 4 cylinder, the in-cylinder pressures are much much higher.

So what we really need to know before assuming there's a lot of power left on the table is whether is has forged internals, because the rods will be subjected to a lot of force.
__________________
2017 Subaru BRZ w/ PP - Delicious Tuning S2+ Flex Fuel/Tomei UEL/HKS Single/FEAL 441+ (7K/7K) - (SCCA TT T4)
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 09:08 PM   #274
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,454
Thanks: 2,092
Thanked 1,837 Times in 1,146 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
the wrc version has a massive restrictor. They made it 3 mm bigger and it added 70 hp. Unrestricted it could put out stupid power.
Just fyi, that 3mm is a lot, but I get your point. When looking at laminar flow, the flow rate is proportional to the radius to the 4th power, meaning a 3mm change from 33mm to 36mm can be big. As it is, 36mm is a 9% improvement over 33mm, but with the ^4 there is a 42% increase in flow.

This makes more sense when we look at the area of the pipe, which without the laminar flow dynamics discussed above, we see 3mm results in a decent bump in the opening:

{[pi(36mm^2) - pi(33mm^2)] / pi(33mm^2)} x 100 = 19% increase
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 09:19 PM   #275
Irace86.2.0
Senior Member
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 3,454
Thanks: 2,092
Thanked 1,837 Times in 1,146 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by why? View Post
The wrc version is hand built and I am sure they use every trick in the world to strengthen everything. It will not be anything near that. I mean compared to a normal street engine.
As I previously posted, it seems like they can change the internals, but they have to use the same materials and the same block and head. This means weight will increase with the reciprocating masses if they strengthen them unless the GR Yaris comes with forged piston and rods to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
We also have to understand the physics behind making power. Torque production is directly correlated to in-cylinder dynamic pressure. Meaning for a 3 cylinder to make the same torque as a 4 cylinder, the in-cylinder pressures are much much higher.

So what we really need to know before assuming there's a lot of power left on the table is whether is has forged internals, because the rods will be subjected to a lot of force.
I kind of mentioned that before in post #265. Power is distributed over 3 cylinders and 3 rods than 4, which means the internals will likely be strengthened over the predecessor.

See above about my comments about the forged internals. I seems likely switching from a 4 cylinder to a 3 cylinder and based on the rules for materials.
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2020, 09:31 PM   #276
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 168
Thanks: 53
Thanked 107 Times in 71 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD001 View Post
We have tuning houses in the UK turning out RS's with circa 520bhp.. you can't do that with a front wheel drive..
Considering half of the US production based car time attack records are held by two FWD cars, I'd say this is demonstrably false. They are globally competitive and hold many global track records for production based cars as well.

James Houghton (K tuned Integra)
William Au-Yeung (Vibrant Civic)

Also the Civic Type R is already making way above 500 whp despite being out for 1/2 the time as the Focus RS...
__________________
2017 Subaru BRZ w/ PP - Delicious Tuning S2+ Flex Fuel/Tomei UEL/HKS Single/FEAL 441+ (7K/7K) - (SCCA TT T4)
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Goingnowherefast For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (05-09-2020)
Old 05-09-2020, 10:11 PM   #277
EAGLE5
Dismember
 
EAGLE5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Drives: 2013 Red Scion FR-S
Location: Castro Valley
Posts: 5,120
Thanks: 1,978
Thanked 3,548 Times in 1,954 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD001 View Post
I know someone who recently bought a Kia Sportage, I asked whether it was the AWD version, he didn't know resulting in call to the dealer.... People buy because they like the shape/size and the message it portrays..
People buy the Kia Sportage for the utility, low price, and ease of getting in and out. AWD is an afterthought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSunrise View Post
They don't want hot hatches (RIP Speed 3, STI hatch, Fiesta ST, Focus ST/RS, dying Golf R). Hell they don't even want lightweight roadsters (RIP S2000, Sky/Solstice, dying ND Miata) or lightweight coupes (RIP RX-7, RX-8, dying Twins).
Speed 3 - FWD
STI hatch - heavy - ~3500 lbs
Fiesta ST - FWD
Focus ST - Somewhat heavy >3200lbs - horrible to drive
RS - Heavy >3400 lbs - brutal suspension
Golf R - somewhat heavy >3300lbs - expensive - not that fun.
S2000, Sky/Solstice, RX-7, ND Miata - only 2-seats
RX-8 - insanely unreliable, horrible fuel economy, burns oil
Also Type R - FWD
Twins - amazing in pretty much every way. 2nd gen coming. still have mine.

I like this hot yaris because it's a revival of the 323GTX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast View Post
Considering half of the US production based car time attack records are held by two FWD cars, I'd say this is demonstrably false. They are globally competitive and hold many global track records for production based cars as well.

James Houghton (K tuned Integra)
William Au-Yeung (Vibrant Civic)

Also the Civic Type R is already making way above 500 whp despite being out for 1/2 the time as the Focus RS...
Often the AWD unlimited cars beat the FWD unlimited by several seconds. Rarely the other way around, and seemingly always with a lesser AWD car. Being able to accelerate out of a corner actually matters.

I would love this Yaris and buy it in a second.
EAGLE5 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EAGLE5 For This Useful Post:
why? (05-10-2020)
Old 05-09-2020, 10:46 PM   #278
Goingnowherefast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: AP2 S2000, 91 Miata 1.8L Rotrex 5MT
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 168
Thanks: 53
Thanked 107 Times in 71 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE5 View Post
Often the AWD unlimited cars beat the FWD unlimited by several seconds. Rarely the other way around, and seemingly always with a lesser AWD car. Being able to accelerate out of a corner actually matters.
Yet, in the real world depending on the conditions, that is simply not always the case. People forget, FWD has the advantage of being the lightest drivetrain configuration with (usually) the least drivetrain loss. I shouldn't have to explain the importance of lightness in motorsports haha.

Some examples from the last two seasons:

GTA2019 @ Road Atlanta - Who won? James Houghton FWD (also a track record)
GTA2019 @ NJMP - Who won? James Houghton FWD (Literally beat the 2nd place unlimited (AWD) car by 5 seconds)
Gridlife 2019 @ Mid-Ohio - Who won? James Houghton FWD
Gridlife 2019 @ Road Atlanta - Willl Au-Yeung FWD
Gridlife 2018 @ Gingerman - Who won? Willl Au-Yeung FWD

Just a few examples with a crowded field including many globally competitive AWD cars with professional drivers. No doubt FWD has some obvious disadvantages too, but it's 2020 and the proof is in the pudding. FWD can be very quick, and depending on the track conditions and environment even record breaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE5 View Post
I would love this Yaris and buy it in a second.
x2
__________________
2017 Subaru BRZ w/ PP - Delicious Tuning S2+ Flex Fuel/Tomei UEL/HKS Single/FEAL 441+ (7K/7K) - (SCCA TT T4)

Last edited by Goingnowherefast; 05-09-2020 at 11:46 PM.
Goingnowherefast is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Goingnowherefast For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (05-10-2020)
Old 05-10-2020, 01:28 AM   #279
Captain Snooze
Because compromise
 
Captain Snooze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Red Herring
Location: australia
Posts: 5,677
Thanks: 2,681
Thanked 5,424 Times in 2,577 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE5 View Post
Speed 3 - FWD
Fiesta ST - FWD
Also Type R - FWD

You are making an example of a class being more important than individual cars.

Let's try rwd. Are you suggesting all rwd are equally fun to drive?
My father's Volvo was rwd; it was a classic example of a barge. It had no steering feel, slow off the line, rolled like a metric shitload of lard.
My slightly warm Pug 206, fwd, had beautiful lift off over-steer and was a joy to drive.
The Fiesta ST is very highly regarded despite it being fwd.

Fun > driven wheels.
__________________
My car is completely stock except for all the mods.

Captain Snooze is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Captain Snooze For This Useful Post:
Goingnowherefast (05-10-2020), Irace86.2.0 (05-10-2020)
Old 05-10-2020, 09:42 AM   #280
DarkSunrise
Senior Member
 
DarkSunrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 13 FR-S
Location: USA
Posts: 5,192
Thanks: 1,402
Thanked 3,504 Times in 1,870 Posts
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE5 View Post
Speed 3 - FWD
STI hatch - heavy - ~3500 lbs
Fiesta ST - FWD
Focus ST - Somewhat heavy >3200lbs - horrible to drive
RS - Heavy >3400 lbs - brutal suspension
Golf R - somewhat heavy >3300lbs - expensive - not that fun.
S2000, Sky/Solstice, RX-7, ND Miata - only 2-seats
RX-8 - insanely unreliable, horrible fuel economy, burns oil
Also Type R - FWD
Twins - amazing in pretty much every way. 2nd gen coming. still have mine.

I like this hot yaris because it's a revival of the 323GTX.
You want a sub-3000 lbs, 4-seat AWD turbo sub-compact hatch, I get it. I think it'd be a cool car too. But that's different from saying there's actually a market for that kind of car in the US. A lot of Americans seem to associate compact/sub-compact hatches with cheap cars. I don't think you'll find a lot of buyers willing to pay north of $30 grand for one.
__________________
Build Page
"I love this car. I think we wimped out when we didn't name it Best Driver's Car." -Randy Pobst on the BRZ
DarkSunrise is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkSunrise For This Useful Post:
strat61caster (05-10-2020)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toyota Yaris WRC announced mav1178 Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 24 08-12-2017 05:59 AM
TRD has Springs & struts for my stupid Yaris but not my FRS? regal Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 3 02-17-2013 04:25 PM
Dedicated to those who are in a YARIS! do to them having issues with there FRS/BRZ 86'ing Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 23 09-15-2012 04:57 PM
FR-S vs Yaris/Tercel, yes you read that right regal FR-S / BRZ vs.... 2 08-13-2012 11:43 AM
2012 Toyota Yaris Dark Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 13 10-10-2010 11:57 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.