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05-09-2021, 06:21 PM | #43 | |
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There are more refueling stations for EVs—multiple in every house and building. People could also add some gas tanks to their garage. I do with E85, but EVs typically get charged at home at night. Fast charging stations don’t need to be as plentiful as gas stations. They would only be used for special occasions by most people. Recharging times are slower when fast charging is needed, but this is currently an infrastructure problem with the current technology. Fast charging will improve, but companies like Niro are proving that swapping is a viable alternative that is faster than filling up with gas. Hydrogen is less efficient and requires much more infrastructure, so it is more likely to be there in a future where energy is in excess and if there is a limit or bottleneck in battery materials that require small batteries in vehicles.
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05-09-2021, 06:31 PM | #44 |
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How lightweight is lightweight? What are your requirements for range and performance? Are we comparing the average ecobox to the average ecobox?
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05-09-2021, 06:42 PM | #45 | |
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I agree because the size of the carbon footprint a vehicle has is dependent on local electricity production and size of batteries and other things, but in general, EVs average a better carbon footprint, even when these factors are considered. They will only get better as utilities switch to renewables and as battery production becomes more local, which is already happening. ICEs aren’t advancing in fuel economy much more. If anything, the push to trucks and SUVs/CUVs is only going to hurt fuel economy.
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05-09-2021, 06:52 PM | #46 | |
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Imagine saying sound is overrated to a deaf person. I wonder why people buy wind chimes.
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05-09-2021, 07:07 PM | #47 | |
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Anyway, if you want sound, just play it on the stereo. You can make your EV sound like a V12 or an i8. Or farts, apparently. You can even fake gear shifts. It's not exactly a difficult problem to solve.
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05-10-2021, 04:13 PM | #48 | |
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ICE = Weedwhacker/lawnmower/ electric = vaccuum cleaner |
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05-10-2021, 04:38 PM | #49 | |
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05-10-2021, 06:56 PM | #50 |
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Range - Improving every single year. Also let's face it just how many average Joes drive more than current EV ranges in a day? I doubt that even 20% would ever need more.
Charging - Not sure where it stands in the US or Australia but we have high speed stations popping up almost everywhere. That capability is also improving every year. Weight - OK this is a sports car focused forum where weight rules. Now go out and ask 10 random people on the street what their car weighs. I doubt you will get one answer. The 2% of the car buying population that cares are the ones that hang out on sports car forums. Nobody else gives a damn. Sound - Back to the same 2% that care. The general public doesn't care if the car makes sound. In fact most would have less even in ICE. Notice how only certain makes and models pump in sound or have fake cabin noise? Everything else makes a big deal about how quiet they are inside. All in all I totally expect the majority of sports car forum users to adamantly deny the growth of electric and eventual demise of ICE but most of the arguments are incomplete or just plan misinformed.
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05-10-2021, 09:05 PM | #51 | |
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"Sports cars" over 3500lb are aberrations. EVs that have range and power do so by carrying big ass batteries, which are the real problems here. They are heavy AF, they are expensive, they wear out, they are filled with hazardous and relatively rare materials, they stay on fire until they decide to stop, it takes energy to keep them from losing energy, and they are heavy AF (yes, I said that twice). The simple solution to using less energy is to reduce the mass and drag of the thing you want to move. So why are we trying to be more efficient by producing huge luxury cars that have 300 mile ranges? Yes, you can recover a portion of the energy you use but you still lose a lot to heat. What we need is a way to make light, efficient EVs that don't try for a 0-60 of 1.0s or something ridiculous, and then give them a means to travel larger distances than they could store in an appropriately sized battery. I just really don't like the way EVs are going from an engineering perspective. It's all about the sales pitch and not about finding the optimal solution IMO. |
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05-10-2021, 09:48 PM | #52 |
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The original Tesla Roadster had a 53 KWh battery good for 240 miles and the entire car weighed in just a bit over the Twins (at 2877 lbs). All specs are from the Wiki article, which also says that the battery has an energy density of 117 Wh/kg, meaning that the batteries weigh in at around 1000 lbs, which is about the difference from an Elise minus the 2ZZ engine.
The second gen Roadster is planned to have 200 KWh battery (so 4x) giving 620 miles of range (so 2.6x). No weight figure is given, but I would guess at a lot. I doubt there's any technical problem in making a lightweight EV sports car with decent range. It's just that nobody cares about such things. Tesla really brought the 0-60 time to the spotlight in mass market obtainable cars (in a territory that was once reserved to million dollar exotics) and that's what anyone is marketing for. I hope that once the first rush of EVs arrives and everyone is settled down to the brave new electric world somebody will make a small lightweight EV sports car that would be fun to drive. Perhaps Mazda with an EV Miata. Or Lotus with their future cars. |
05-11-2021, 05:29 AM | #53 | |
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That said, there is another way: Low power + 2 or 3 speed manual transmission gets your motor efficiency up without the expense of more motors and more power. That's the kind of car I want to drive: First gen Roadster with a next-generation battery pack that weighs 700lbs less, and manual control over the gearbox. You have to downshift to 1st gear when you come to a stop if you want to regen as much energy as possible |
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05-11-2021, 02:51 PM | #54 | |
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Once battery swapping is more common, the range/time anxiety for trips will go away, and the size of the batteries will get smaller. Performance and efficiency will improve too like you mention.
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05-14-2021, 12:15 PM | #55 | |
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05-15-2021, 02:59 PM | #56 |
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I feel like the next batch of Lotus cars will be similar in their platform and style, but I would love to see an entry-level Lotus that is a FR layout that takes cues and proportions from this Lotus Elite pictured from Gordon Murray's collection.
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