Suspension UPGRADE - Shock/Spring Pkg vs. Coilover System - Which to choose?

[themajesticone]

I want to upgrade my suspension so that I can run my car as a somewhat comfortable daily driver, but also be able to take it to track days every month or two and have it perform well. I think many of you would agree, keeping stock shocks and doing an upgrade like this: http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/ft-8...-kit-1152.html won't cut it for track at least. I have a few options in mind (see below) and I would really appreciate some constructive responses.

*I understand that yes it is non-adjustable vs. adjustable. Keeping that in mind I really have no idea how often I would actually adjust ride height realistically. If there is a better option than the ones I have listed below please offer the suggestion so I can take it into account. Thank you.

Would really like to hear from @Racecomp Engineering @CSG David @CSG Mike and @FT-86 SpeedFactory

1) Bilstein B8 Package(RCE Yellow) - http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/bils...llow-1421.html

2) Bilstein B8 Package(RCE Tarmac) - http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/bils...rmac-1422.html

3) Bilstein B8 Package(Pro-Kit) - http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/bils...-kit-1424.html

4) Bilstein B8 Package(Sportline) - http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/bils...line-1423.html

5) Bilstein B14 PSS Coilovers - http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/bils...vers-1216.html

6) Skunk2 Pro-C Coilovers - http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/skun...vers-1725.html

7) KW V1 Coilovers - http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/kw-v...vers-1001.html

8) Fortune Auto V5 500 Series- http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/fort...lover-206.html

What should I go with?

[Turdinator]

What is your budget?

[themajesticone]

$1,400-1,500

[BRZ?]

I'll be ordering these in a week or so...

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/rce-...s-brz-797.html

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Race...djustable-19mm

Then again, I have a slightly different outlook on performance goals, more of an OEM+

[Shankenstein]

I'd point you towards the Bilsteins B8 + RCE Tarmacs. You'll reduce the amount of roll, squat, and drive... without compromising much ride quality and durability.

20mm drop will reduce wheel gap, and the spring rate will increase significantly (which it needs to, with the reduced articulation). From all indications, the B8 should have adequate range of damping to match a 5 kg/mm spring.

This guy provides an honest review of the setup, addressing most of my thoughts/concerns:
Link to thread

[2point0]

Originally Posted by BRZ?

I'll be ordering these in a week or so...

http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/rce-...s-brz-797.html

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Race...djustable-19mm

Then again, I have a slightly different outlook on performance goals, more of an OEM+

Those bars are huge. I put a 25mm front bar on my 2010 STi and that car was about 700 lbs. heavier. 19mm was the stock rear bar, I put that on the BRZ and couldn't keep traction control from going crazy.

If you've got really sticky tires, that's one thing. But those bars are overkill for street.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by themajesticone

I want to upgrade my suspension so that I can run my car as a somewhat comfortable daily driver, but also be able to take it to track days every month or two and have it perform well.

Everything's a compromise.

Originally Posted by BRZ?

I'll be ordering these in a week or so...
http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Race...djustable-19mm

I have the Eibach sway bars fitted which are the same diameters as the RaceComp bars and while they certainly have flattened the cornering I can feel the cross talk at the front when hitting bumps on one side of the car. That's with 6k springs front and rear.

[Manji]

I have two recommendations; that really come down to what you want.

Bilstein B8 with Tein S-Tech springs maintain good comfort, keep (if not slightly enhance) the cars stock willingness to rotate, and close the wheel gap up - as I suspect that is a motivator here.

If you aren't worried about the wheel gap, I would recommend Bilstein B14.

[Fizz]

You may want to consider the Bilstein B6 as well. Apparently they have similar rates to the B8 but with a standard length body (B8 has shorter body). If that's true, then the benefit in using B6 over B8 is that you'll get a little more droop...providing you use a spring that is captive on stock damper length of course. Plus the B6 is cheaper than the B8.

[themajesticone]

Originally Posted by Fizz

You may want to consider the Bilstein B6 as well. Apparently they have similar rates to the B8 but with a standard length body (B8 has shorter body). If that's true, then the benefit in using B6 over B8 is that you'll get a little more droop...providing you use a spring that is captive on stock damper length of course. Plus the B6 is cheaper than the B8.

I thought the B8 is made specifically for springs that offer more of a drop than the stock ride height? So, wouldn't the B6 be less ideal if I were to get the RCE Tarmac (- .8") or Eibach Sportline (- 1.4")?

Also, what do you mean a little more droop? and "providing you use a spring that is captive on stock damper length of course"? If you could clarify in detail because I am not following due to my ignorance haha.

[themajesticone]

On Bilsteins site there is also this,

"What difference is there between BILSTEIN B6 Sport and BILSTEIN B8 Sprint shock absorbers? The BILSTEIN B6 Sport is a mono-tube gas pressure shock absorber designed to dampen wide-ranging vibrations very precisely. Where an oil shock absorber produces an oily foam and creates a spongy driving feeling after a very short distance, the BILSTEIN B6 Sport remains constant, precise and stable. The BILSTEIN B8 Sprint is a mono-tube gas pressure shock absorber specifically designed to be used with lowered vehicles with shorter stroke. It also offers the same advantages as the BILSTEIN B6 Sport shock absorber."

On another site....

B6 or B8 Sprint?
B6 - Ideal upgrade for standard dampers, all the benefits of B8, but standard length designed to work with standard ride height and lowering springs up to approx 30mm lowering (please note only a guide the key criteria is to ensure location of spring on droop)
B8 - Specially designed for lowered sport vehicles. It's a must when sports springs are used with lowering of 30-40 mm or more. Shortened unit ensures spring is correcly located and gives less droop and more predictable control of over/undesteer and sharper responses. (In some cases only B6 will be listed.)

I am learning - perhaps you could explain?

So RCE Tarmacs would work perfectly fine with the B6's but Eibach Sportlines would work better on the B8's?

[Shankenstein]

Originally Posted by themajesticone

I thought the B8 is made specifically for springs that offer more of a drop than the stock ride height? So, wouldn't the B6 be less ideal if I were to get the RCE Tarmac (- .8") or Eibach Sportline (- 1.4")?

Also, what do you mean a little more droop? and "providing you use a spring that is captive on stock damper length of course"? If you could clarify in detail because I am not following due to my ignorance haha.

If you have ever worked on a car with cut springs or very low drop... there's an amount of suspension extension (droop) that completely disengages the spring. It flops around and sometimes comes off of its perches.

Don't be that guy.

I've always been a fan of letting springs control body motion. Sway bars do an excellent job of leveling the car during roll, but in other situations, they can prevent each wheel from acting independently. Keep sizes reasonable, unless you're in an SCCA class that benefits from that loophole.

Regarding spring choice, you have alot of good options. Pick the ones that give you the amount of comfort you'll need for your driving habits.

[Racecomp Engineering]

B6 and B8 have similar valving, the differences are:

1. B8 (probably) have a shorter bumpstop up front to allow a little more bump travel. I can't 100% confirm this is true but I believe that it is.
2. B8 have a shorter overall extended length. This means less droop travel (extension) which isn't really a good thing.

For our RCE springs you can go either way, and with the B6s being cheaper it makes them a little more appealing. BUT if the B8s do have a shorter internal front bumpstop that is very helpful.

There's a couple people running the B8/RCE Tarmac combo with some reviews posted here. It's firm but very well controlled. It will be a very solid "set it and forget it" package that will last a long time. Even for me non-adjustable is kind of appealing.

Eibach Sportlines are IMO too low. More of a style spring whereas we focused on function first and even Eibach Pro-kit would be preferable from that standpoint.

Bilstein PSS coilovers are a solid option but use progressive springs which I don't prefer. Good quality set-up though.

Another option would be RCE T0 coilovers. Based on KW V1 but a little firmer and sport/track oriented. Same nice stainless finish and lifetime warranty.

- Andy

[themajesticone]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

B6 and B8 have similar valving, the differences are:

1. B8 (probably) have a shorter bumpstop up front to allow a little more bump travel. I can't 100% confirm this is true but I believe that it is.
2. B8 have a shorter overall extended length. This means less droop travel (extension) which isn't really a good thing.

For our RCE springs you can go either way, and with the B6s being cheaper it makes them a little more appealing. BUT if the B8s do have a shorter internal front bumpstop that is very helpful.

There's a couple people running the B8/RCE Tarmac combo with some reviews posted here. It's firm but very well controlled. It will be a very solid "set it and forget it" package that will last a long time. Even for me non-adjustable is kind of appealing.

Eibach Sportlines are IMO too low. More of a style spring whereas we focused on function first and even Eibach Pro-kit would be preferable from that standpoint.

Bilstein PSS coilovers are a solid option but use progressive springs which I don't prefer. Good quality set-up though.

Another option would be RCE T0 coilovers. Based on KW V1 but a little firmer and sport/track oriented. Same nice stainless finish and lifetime warranty.

- Andy

Thank you for the response! Regarding the RCE T0's - I noticed that stock it comes with 280/280 spring rates but there is a 350/350 option instead. How much more is the 350 being that the 280 are $1,699 starting?