follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 2nd Gens: GR86 and BRZ > GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86)

GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-07-2022, 10:50 AM   #1
Hachiroku
Administrator
 
Hachiroku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: Boxster 986
Location: Tristate
Posts: 1,160
Thanks: 36
Thanked 1,977 Times in 344 Posts
Mentioned: 163 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
2022 GR86 Premium Results @ Car and Driver Lightning Lap 2022 Competition

2022 Toyota GR86 Premium at Lightning Lap 2022

The Toyobaru twins are equal, but this one is a little more equal than the other.

Lap Time: 3:11.8

Class: LL1 | Base: $31,325 | As Tested: $31,750
Power and Weight: 228 hp • 2833 lb • 12.4 lb/hp
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport 4, 215/40R-18 85Y

The Toyota GR86 and Subaru BRZ are the automotive equivalent of identical twins separated at birth. It's the age-old question of nature versus nurture—they start with the same mechanical DNA, but how did each parent influence their progeny's development?

The GR86 has firmer suspension tuning and a stiffer rear anti-roll bar, which makes it more willing to hang its tail out on the street. But on the track, we couldn't tell the difference between it and the BRZ; they exhibit the exact same behavior. Same sharp steering. Same nimbleness. Same tendency to engage in sexy opposite-lock tail slides.

Name:  2022-toyota-gr86-premium-102-1643997610.jpg
Views: 1136
Size:  18.2 KB

But not the same lap time. The GR86 is 0.6 second quicker, with 0.4 second of its advantage coming in the sector that includes the tight bends of Oak Tree and Bitch and the long back straight. Around the rest of the lap, it trades tiny increments of time and speed back and forth with the Subaru. Measured against history, the GR86 is 2.2 seconds quicker than the 2018 BRZ tS we ran in Lightning Lap 12.

This year's Lightning Lap did unearth a shared shortcoming with the Toyobaru twins: Without the BRZ's brake-fluid upgrade, the GR86's brakes were so feeble, they'd inch closer and closer to the floor as the lap went on. They kept performing, just not inspiring. So, if you're hoping to track either of these coupes, we recommend at least replacing the brake fluid and stock pads. That's not all they have in common, of course. From the driver's seat these twins are indistinguishable—two cars, one kick-ass track experience.

Watch the GR86 lap video:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lightning-lap/


Read the Lightning Lap 2022 Competition Article:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2022/
Hachiroku is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Hachiroku For This Useful Post:
Blighty (02-08-2022), BRZ Hachi (02-09-2022), DarkSunrise (02-07-2022), DriveDriftDogfight86 (02-13-2022), Jianlun (02-07-2022), sato (02-11-2022), wbradley (02-07-2022)
Old 02-09-2022, 05:47 PM   #2
Sport-Tech
Senior Member
 
Sport-Tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Drives: TBD
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,582
Thanks: 665
Thanked 684 Times in 386 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Well that's it then. Anyone who buys a BRZ is clearly an idiot.
Sport-Tech is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sport-Tech For This Useful Post:
funwheeldrive (02-12-2022)
Old 02-10-2022, 08:52 PM   #3
BRZZZZZZZZZZ
Car Nut
 
BRZZZZZZZZZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: BMW 335d, Toyota Echo RS, FRS
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,557
Thanks: 368
Thanked 603 Times in 346 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Replacing my 13 continues to be compelling…
BRZZZZZZZZZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BRZZZZZZZZZZ For This Useful Post:
funwheeldrive (02-12-2022)
Old 02-10-2022, 09:24 PM   #4
Yoshoobaroo
TRACKBREAD
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,928
Thanks: 2,657
Thanked 4,018 Times in 1,893 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport-Tech View Post
Well that's it then. Anyone who buys a BRZ is clearly an idiot.

You say that, but I didnít want anything too crazy.
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2022, 06:59 PM   #5
loungin
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Drives: 22 gr86
Location: Campbell
Posts: 33
Thanks: 1
Thanked 18 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Sounds fun! If you track it, brake pads and fluid will be changed often anyway.
loungin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2022, 11:14 PM   #6
sato
Senior Member
 
sato's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: Dodge Patitas
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 970
Thanks: 1,821
Thanked 370 Times in 264 Posts
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport-Tech View Post
Well that's it then. Anyone who buys a BRZ is clearly an idiot.
I did read that the '22 BRZ was more composed than the GR86. However, it seems that Toyota finally hit the jackpot when they wanted different dynamics than the BRZ, which results in faster (for C&D) vs Gen1 BRZ overall results (which placed BRZ #1 almost every time they were compared).
sato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 12:52 AM   #7
PulsarBeeerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: JRSC BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 925
Thanks: 672
Thanked 735 Times in 394 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Almost 8s faster than a 2017 PP BRZ.. Not all the E85 in the world is gonna close that gap. But,I still like my PIF BRZ.
PulsarBeeerz is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PulsarBeeerz For This Useful Post:
funwheeldrive (02-12-2022)
Old 02-12-2022, 01:34 AM   #8
DarkSunrise
Senior Member
 
DarkSunrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S)
Location: USA
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 2,157
Thanked 4,238 Times in 2,218 Posts
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz View Post
Almost 8s faster than a 2017 PP BRZ.. Not all the E85 in the world is gonna close that gap. But,I still like my PIF BRZ.
Meh it's only 2.2 seconds faster than the 2018 BRZ TS which has the same MPS4 tires. You don't even need E85, you could close that gap with E60
__________________
"Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time."

2022 BRZ Build
2013 FR-S Build
DarkSunrise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 03:36 AM   #9
PulsarBeeerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: JRSC BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 925
Thanks: 672
Thanked 735 Times in 394 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSunrise View Post
Meh it's only 2.2 seconds faster than the 2018 BRZ TS which has the same MPS4 tires. You don't even need E85, you could close that gap with E60
Here's the cheese. There is no 22' BRZ TS so the comparison isn't applicable. You can't mention the same-same tires and leave out the BBK, aero, chassis bracing, and track oriented suspension. Realistically the 2Gen is $200 in offset tophats and crash bolts away from putting 2 additional seconds on the 1Gen.
PulsarBeeerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 03:53 AM   #10
Dylans47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Drives: Scion FR-S
Location: California
Posts: 176
Thanks: 49
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSunrise View Post
Meh it's only 2.2 seconds faster than the 2018 BRZ TS which has the same MPS4 tires. You don't even need E85, you could close that gap with E60
"Meh only 2.2 seconds" really shows you don't know track times. 2.2 seconds is a considerable gap. I'm guessing a gen 1 owner?

I don't understand gen 1 owners when they try to talk down gen 2. I mean guys gen 2 means there'll be more support for the gen 1...
Dylans47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 09:34 AM   #11
DarkSunrise
Senior Member
 
DarkSunrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S)
Location: USA
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 2,157
Thanked 4,238 Times in 2,218 Posts
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz View Post
Here's the cheese. There is no 22' BRZ TS so the comparison isn't applicable. You can't mention the same-same tires and leave out the BBK, aero, chassis bracing, and track oriented suspension. Realistically the 2Gen is $200 in offset tophats and crash bolts away from putting 2 additional seconds on the 1Gen.
Haha I didn't mean my comment seriously (see the smiley), but ok being a bit more serious now. Most of the difference with the TS trim comes down to the MPS4 tires. The TS and the 2022 upper trims pull the same skidpad numbers on the same tires, regardless of the TS suspension. The BBK won't help, C&D got the 2022 brakes to last the full hot lap. The OEM TS aero is mild, even Subaru admits that. Chassis bracing, not going to have a meaningful effect.

If you took a base 1st gen BRZ and simply changed to the MPS4 tires, you'd find most of the difference in time there. The MPS4 tires generate ~0.98g lateral grip compared to ~0.90 on the Primacy's. That's a huge difference, more than any of the other changes on the TS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylans47 View Post
"Meh only 2.2 seconds" really shows you don't know track times. 2.2 seconds is a considerable gap. I'm guessing a gen 1 owner?

I don't understand gen 1 owners when they try to talk down gen 2. I mean guys gen 2 means there'll be more support for the gen 1...
Nope, my 2022 BRZ is on order and coming in May. Not "talking down" at all on the 2nd gen, just being honest. For laptime purposes, it is what it is, basically a power upgrade over the 1st gen. Also if you've ever driven VIR it's a long track, especially in the Grand Course configuration C&D uses. 2.2 seconds over a 3+ min lap is enough to be significant, but not exactly a huge difference.
__________________
"Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time."

2022 BRZ Build
2013 FR-S Build
DarkSunrise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 02:37 PM   #12
PulsarBeeerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: JRSC BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 925
Thanks: 672
Thanked 735 Times in 394 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSunrise View Post
Haha I didn't mean my comment seriously (see the smiley), but ok being a bit more serious now. Most of the difference with the TS trim comes down to the MPS4 tires. The TS and the 2022 upper trims pull the same skidpad numbers on the same tires, regardless of the TS suspension. The BBK won't help, C&D got the 2022 brakes to last the full hot lap. The OEM TS aero is mild, even Subaru admits that. Chassis bracing, not going to have a meaningful effect.

If you took a base 1st gen BRZ and simply changed to the MPS4 tires, you'd find most of the difference in time there. The MPS4 tires generate ~0.98g lateral grip compared to ~0.90 on the Primacy's. That's a huge difference, more than any of the other changes on the TS.

Well, lets keep this going because I disagree with judging possible lap times based on peak G levels at skidpad. Its one data point of a steady state one dimensional test. There is no relevance on dynamic handling or driver confidence. Its like 0-60 test vs real world. No one drives the brochure numbers; unless you own a Tesla..

Anyway, are you saying all the track focused modifications done on the TS don't really do anything? I do find that interesting. I agree that the same tires would help a regular 1Gen shave ~3-4sec and then E85 would close it further. BUT, a few degrees of front camber on the 2Gen and way she goes boys. Way she freaking goes.
PulsarBeeerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2022, 04:21 PM   #13
DarkSunrise
Senior Member
 
DarkSunrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S)
Location: USA
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 2,157
Thanked 4,238 Times in 2,218 Posts
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz View Post
Well, lets keep this going because I disagree with judging possible lap times based on peak G levels at skidpad. Its one data point of a steady state one dimensional test. There is no relevance on dynamic handling or driver confidence. Its like 0-60 test vs real world. No one drives the brochure numbers; unless you own a Tesla..

Anyway, are you saying all the track focused modifications done on the TS don't really do anything? I do find that interesting. I agree that the same tires would help a regular 1Gen shave ~3-4sec and then E85 would close it further. BUT, a few degrees of front camber on the 2Gen and way she goes boys. Way she freaking goes.
Yeah steady state skidpad doesn't tell the whole story but it is probably the best indicator of overall tire grip there is, which correlates strongly (again not perfectly) to lap times.

The bolded part above I agree with. Sure front camber helps gen 2, but same with gen 1 since they share the same suspension design. When it comes to actual laptimes with the TS, I do think the upgraded tires are doing the majority of the work.

Gen 1 with E85/header/tune is going to run very close lap times to stock Gen 2, assuming both are on the same tires. The independent track data we've seen already supports this at tracks like Buttonwillow.
__________________
"Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time."

2022 BRZ Build
2013 FR-S Build
DarkSunrise is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkSunrise For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (02-14-2022)
Old 02-13-2022, 12:44 AM   #14
Caeser
Member
 
Caeser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Drives: Future
Location: NY
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 10 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
expected a bigger gap between this and the Ts.
Caeser is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2022 BRZ/GR86 Fuse Tap? Midnightsky Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 1 01-24-2022 01:05 PM
2022 Ford F150 Lightning [now electric] Kiske Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 23 01-09-2022 12:07 PM
2022 GR86 Premium MT & AT Comparo StE92ve GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) 121 12-08-2021 11:21 AM
2022 GR86 MSRP 2k over the BRZ? mangler CANADA 5 12-06-2021 11:51 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2023 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.