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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 07-06-2023, 09:25 AM   #29
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Weíre all winging it, more of a donít ask donít tell arrangement. Iíll use my AAA to tow me home from an event site but I wonít be filing a claim and risk screwing it up for everybody.
Yeah that's what I figured. It's not like these insurance companies have spies following you around.

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Old 07-06-2023, 09:37 AM   #30
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It's not like these insurance companies have spies following you around.
I've read reports on other car forums of insurance agents attending HPDE events and photographing license plates or looking for track photos and videos on social media with license plates visible. Some folks suggest taking off the license plates when on the track...
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Old 07-06-2023, 09:59 AM   #31
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I've read reports on other car forums of insurance agents attending HPDE events and photographing license plates or looking for track photos and videos on social media with license plates visible. Some folks suggest taking off the license plates when on the track...
I'll have to ask around at work if my company does this sort of thing. Since we no longer have exclusive agents, there isn't a direct connection between the carrier and the agent so I wouldn't believe that we do that sort of thing. Maybe smaller insurance carriers with direct agents might do this sort of thing.

The SCCA region I'm in has run into a scenario with Mid-Ohio where they don't/won't allow anyone that isn't directly connected to the region into the site for events. Basically, you're not registered with us for our events, you don't get in. I don't know how other regions/events handle that however.
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Old 07-06-2023, 10:24 AM   #32
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I've read reports on other car forums of insurance agents attending HPDE events and photographing license plates or looking for track photos and videos on social media with license plates visible. Some folks suggest taking off the license plates when on the track...
See, my insurance company would do this kind of thing I think. Just talking to my agent about it probably put a flag on my account now
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Old 07-06-2023, 11:52 AM   #33
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A related but sorta separate question: for folks that regularly take a daily driver or otherwise non-dedicated car to the track.. who do you use for normal car insurance?

I recently did my first track day - the Toyota freebie with NASA. I didn't get insurance for the day which was the right move because it would have been a waste. Traffic due to newbies was so heavy it was like driving at public road speeds for the few sessions we got.

Anyhow I was thinking to make doing at least 1 or 2 HPDEs per year a thing and so may do insurance in the future. I called my current provider to make sure they had no issue with me getting track day insurance on top of theirs and was informed driving any car under their policy on a race track in any capacity is prohibited use, and if I did so they will drop me and all of my vehicles all together. Whew!

Calling around I've gotten through about 5 major providers. Everyone says same thing - even though the policy excludes them from track accident liability, they don't want the risk. So no race track at all, or no policy. Hagerty is the only one I've spoken to that is OK with track days on their regular policy. Unfortunately I plan to drive the car 5-8k mi per year which is way too high for them as their "regular" insurance is intended for low-mileage classics.

So does anyone have a regular insurance policy that is OK with going to the track, just no coverage if something happens there? Or is everyone in that boat just winging it?
Why would you even mention that you may track your car to your normal insurance provider? It's something they do not need to know as they will have no liability. Pretty much all of them will drop you if you tell them....even if you are purchasing track specific coverage from another provider.
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Old 07-06-2023, 01:22 PM   #34
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Why would you even mention that you may track your car to your normal insurance provider? It's something they do not need to know as they will have no liability. Pretty much all of them will drop you if you tell them....even if you are purchasing track specific coverage from another provider.
From all of the research I did on the subject I had no idea that was how it was. I'd found tons of info on track day insurance but never read/heard anywhere that traditional providers don't permit any track use whatsoever. Just the obvious point that they won't cover anything that happens on a track.

I read somewhere that some traditional providers do offer some form of coverage at a track - what I know now is BS. By the time I spoke with my rep I knew this wasn't going to be the case with them but I had the question in mind initially.

I would never have guessed that everyone was winging it in this way. I generally don't do anything like that, call me square. Sorry if all this should have remained unspoken haha
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Old 07-06-2023, 02:12 PM   #35
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....
I would never have guessed that everyone was winging it in this way. I generally don't do anything like that, call me square. Sorry if all this should have remained unspoken haha
If you read this entire thread, there was a reason I posted what I posted about being willing to part with your car. I know that's not a popular sentiment among enthusiasts but, because of the challenging insurance environment, that's basically where you stand. Track day insurance for a car that's not too expensive isn't terrible but for a very nice car it's pretty pricey.

In the end we're all subject to not only the chance that we'll have an incident at the track that we cause but also the chance that we'll be impacted by someone else's incident.

This is a very expensive hobby for sure.
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Old 07-06-2023, 04:36 PM   #36
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If you read this entire thread, there was a reason I posted what I posted about being willing to part with your car. I know that's not a popular sentiment among enthusiasts but, because of the challenging insurance environment, that's basically where you stand. Track day insurance for a car that's not too expensive isn't terrible but for a very nice car it's pretty pricey.

In the end we're all subject to not only the chance that we'll have an incident at the track that we cause but also the chance that we'll be impacted by someone else's incident.

This is a very expensive hobby for sure.
I did read the whole thread beforehand and I'm on the same page as you basically.

"Don't take any car to the track that you wouldn't mind losing" is extreme at face value but not bad advice when you accept that tracking a car is purely a luxury. It's the #2 reason I hadn't dipped my toes until recently. Factoring in insurance one can somewhat ignore that advice, but it all adds up to a very steep barrier to entry and a questionable decision unless you're financially very healthy.
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Old 07-06-2023, 05:16 PM   #37
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I did read the whole thread beforehand and I'm on the same page as you basically.

"Don't take any car to the track that you wouldn't mind losing" is extreme at face value but not bad advice when you accept that tracking a car is purely a luxury. It's the #2 reason I hadn't dipped my toes until recently. Factoring in insurance one can somewhat ignore that advice, but it all adds up to a very steep barrier to entry and a questionable decision unless you're financially very healthy.
Yeah, I agree that it's extreme. I didn't come up with that line but I get the point. If you look beyond the initial insult of what it's saying, it's really aimed at the people that have a car they cherish and wouldn't want to lose. If you see the car you take there as a tool to do the thing you love then it's stings a little less because you know you can recover from whatever might happen to the car. The financial aspects are definitely a fly in the ointment. There is risk with this stuff and even insurance won't help if you lose the car you love to whatever might happen.
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Old 07-06-2023, 06:34 PM   #38
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Factoring in insurance one can somewhat ignore that advice, but it all adds up to a very steep barrier to entry and a questionable decision unless you're financially very healthy.
Have a plan for getting to work on Monday if your car isnít driveable as well. As my only car (+ my wifeís car) I can work from home short term while I find a replacement.
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Old 07-06-2023, 07:06 PM   #39
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Absolutely never mention Autocross/HPDE/Trackdays/Racing/Racetrack of any kind to your normal insurance carrier. They will 100% note that on your account and some carriers will drop you at your next renewal (they will almost never do it early so they don’t have to note the reason for cancellation).

For those contemplating doing HPDE, I’m not sure why you would risk taking a 20-35k car out on a track with other drivers without some type of coverage. Unless you just don’t care, have plenty of money to cover the potential bad-case scenario. It’s just not worth the risk, IMO.

I just got done with a 2-Day event and used Lockton for my Ins. coverage. Was $170 for the event with 25k coverage and a 15% ded. It’s worth it.
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Old 07-06-2023, 08:48 PM   #40
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I had one friend total his mazda speed 3 at NJMP many years ago. Called his insurance company and said he crashed at a driving school event. No issues

There is always the bring it to the street then call trick. When I was younger and being stupid I hit a curb called the insurance company with a BS story they couldn't care less what happened lol I paid my deductible and that was it.

Track insurance is for people that want to follow the law and be worry free but most people can get away with lying and paying the deductible
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Old 07-07-2023, 03:21 PM   #41
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Most street policies these days have a specific exclusion.

Towing your car to the street and making up a story will probably "work," but man, you're taking some serious risk with committing felony insurance fraud over a net of ~$15k (after deductible, premium hike, etc.).

Consider just getting a cheap track car. You can get an "hpde miata" (gutted, suspension, etc, but far from spec) for $7-10k all day long, and probably a lot less than that. It won't lose any value and will probably save you a lot of money in operating cost. So it's not so much "spending" money as "locking up money." You'll be able to slowly build that. You'll also be able to run true track settings without compromise for the street (or significantly less). Or hell, just buy a shitty old miata, put $2500 into it for cooling, pads and suspension and track it.

Just play within your own financial means. If you don't, this sport can bite you really hard. There will always be someone with more.
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Old 07-07-2023, 04:33 PM   #42
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Most street policies these days have a specific exclusion.

Towing your car to the street and making up a story will probably "work," but man, you're taking some serious risk with committing felony insurance fraud over a net of ~$15k (after deductible, premium hike, etc.).

Consider just getting a cheap track car. You can get an "hpde miata" (gutted, suspension, etc, but far from spec) for $7-10k all day long, and probably a lot less than that. It won't lose any value and will probably save you a lot of money in operating cost. So it's not so much "spending" money as "locking up money." You'll be able to slowly build that. You'll also be able to run true track settings without compromise for the street (or significantly less). Or hell, just buy a shitty old miata, put $2500 into it for cooling, pads and suspension and track it.

Just play within your own financial means. If you don't, this sport can bite you really hard. There will always be someone with more.
^^100% agree. Not worth the risk. One of my buddies has binned his BRZ a couple times and just decided to part it out and bought a cheap NB Miata. He races with a team that does Lucky Dog events in a Miata anyway so he figured it would be good to go to that platform.
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