Conceal Carry and HandGun Thread

[yomny]

Any pics of those who carry in their frs's. Put mine in the glovebox but always taking quick turns so it's always banging side to side.

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by Monogram

Don't worry, the police will protect you. Remember, "when seconds count, they are only minutes away".

Behind my shop, and in my yard:

[f0rge]

Originally Posted by Monogram

Don't worry, the police will protect you. Remember, "when seconds count, they are only minutes away".

Protect me from what exactly lol? Bears?

[Monogram]

Originally Posted by f0rge

Protect me from what exactly lol? Bears?

You have a violent crime rate that is something like three times that in the United States. A quick search showed 387 per 100k for the U.S., 1,100 per 100k for Canada.

I agree. You people should not be allowed to own guns.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by f0rge

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian and I we don't have a lot of guns around these parts but this seems crazy to me. The thought of randoms walking around with concealed handguns seems completely over the top and pretty damn dangerous.

There's literally never been a time in my 33 years where I would have been better off if I had a gun.

Anyway, don't want to start anything political here, guns are cool and I'd probably own one if it was easier, but this whole thing just seems so out there to me.

Preface - No disrespect to anyone here.

@f0rge It's ok man, there are a LOT of us from the U.S. that are a little disturbed by the sheer number of people fantasizing about protecting themselves with guns too. My family has always owned guns and were avid sportsmen/outdoorsmen. In the last 100 years of our family history. We've lived in tough neighborhoods, and hung with tough people, been in the military and law enforcement. I know my way around various firearms as well. Outside of the Korean war/conflict the presence of a gun has never benefited any of us in a self-defense scenario. Not once. Yet they still invest in them, accept the risk of personal ownership/carry, and keep them "ready" in the house. It's almost like they're waiting for that one violent moment to come to validate their investment & borderline obsession with that same, very unlikely event. I live near the ocean, when I get in the water it's unlikely that I'm going to have to fend off a shark attack, so I don't carry a spear everytime I go. However some in here in the U.S. really are fixated on the concept of an armed conflict with another human being in defense of themselves, their loved ones or their property. So yes, all of this gun worship is indeed "out there", but don't worry, it's not all of us.

[f0rge]

Originally Posted by Monogram

You have a violent crime rate that is something like three times that in the United States. A quick search showed 387 per 100k for the U.S., 1,100 per 100k for Canada.

I agree. You people should not be allowed to own guns.

Now that you've just proved that America is safer than Canada, what makes you so afraid that you feel the need to carry a gun?

[f0rge]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Preface - No disrespect to anyone here.

@f0rge It's ok man, there are a LOT of us from the U.S. that are a little disturbed by the sheer number of people fantasizing about protecting themselves with guns too. My family has always owned guns and were avid sportsmen/outdoorsmen. In the last 100 years of our family history. We've lived in tough neighborhoods, and hung with tough people, been in the military and law enforcement. I know my way around various firearms as well. Outside of the Korean war/conflict the presence of a gun has never benefited any of us in a self-defense scenario. Not once. Yet they still invest in them, accept the risk of personal ownership/carry, and keep them "ready" in the house. It's almost like they're waiting for that one violent moment to come to validate their investment & borderline obsession with that same, very unlikely event. I live near the ocean, when I get in the water it's unlikely that I'm going to have to fend off a shark attack, so I don't carry a spear everytime I go. However some in here in the U.S. really are fixated on the concept of an armed conflict with another human being in defense of themselves, their loved ones or their property. So yes, all of this gun worship is indeed "out there", but don't worry, it's not all of us.

Like I said I get "guns", they're cool, they're mechanical, and I would likely own a couple if it was easier. I also understand the need to protect your family. I have an infantry knife in my nightstand and a hatchet under the bed, because you never know.

The weird part to me (and probably most Canadians) is every other random person out on the street carrying a live and deadly firearm.

That's what's "out there" for me, that the dude I accidentally bump into at Starbucks is packing heat.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by f0rge

Now that you've just proved that America is safer than Canada, what makes you so afraid that you feel the need to carry a gun?

This is sadly typical.

The assumption is that one only carries a gun because one is afraid. That is incorrect.

We are not afraid. We are prepared.

Let's put this into a different perspective. Why do you wear a seatbelt? What makes you so afraid that you're going to have a car crash that you feel the need to wear a seat belt? Are you going to go out there and hoon around, and thus you need to wear one because you might crash? Drive responsibly and you'll be fine!

To us, guns are like fire extinguishers and seatbelts. They are all tools one has close at hand and is trained to use in case that which we don't want to happen and also avoid still ends up happening and those tools then become necessary to save life.

One reason violent crime rate is dropping is because the canny crook lookings for unarmed, unaware prey (it's safer and less risky for him, when he has the advantage of surprise and the advantage in armament and ruthlessness). When the populace becomes increasingly armed, the canny crook has a much reduced victim pool from which to select that he can feel safe victimizing. He's less likely to be brazen or choose your house when the risk of him breaking into a house with an armed and ready occupant is greater.

It's not about being afraid of something. It's about being prepared and competent so that we don't have to be afraid.

I sleep soundly whether or not I have my gun by my bedside, but in one instance, I sleep soundly b/c I feel safe (the one without the gun ready at hand). The other I sleep soundly because I'm safer (the one where my gun and light are ready at hand).

My hope is that I will never have to draw my gun other than during competitions such as IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) matches (much safer than track days btw, I assure you), but if I have to, I'll be able to, and do so with minimal additional risk to innocent bystanders. Also hopefully if such a situation arises, I won't have to anyway because I'll be able to extract myself and my loved ones from the danger area without encountering the crimminals bent on violence and mayhem (or just plain greed such that they'll kill just to see if I have anything worth taking), or because they were stupid enough to do so with a cop near by.

However, I alone am responsible for my own personal safety, and secondarily responsible for the safety of my own around me. The cops sure aren't (there's surpreme court cases that say so), even if many good and decent cops do try to do so anyway (and I appreciate them). But a good cop also is reactive: he or she comes when called, which means that something bad has to start happening before they move in. Same with me, except that if I have to draw my gun, I'm the one who is there, and the cop is not.

This is life and bad things happen. I'm prepared should something so bad happen that I have to use justified deadly force to stop it from causing death or great bodily harm to me or mine. Hopefully that will never happen, but better to have it and never need it, than to one day need it and not have it.

[UltraFRS]

Depending on what I'm wearing it's either a Glock 26 or a Ruger LCP, but 99% of the time it's the glock.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by f0rge

That's what's "out there" for me, that the dude I accidentally bump into at Starbucks is packing heat.

And the reason why so many people have them is that they're trying to be prepared for some conflict that they believe/fear they will need to resolve with a firearm. This idea of some eminent over the top conflict that can only be resolved with a firearm drives people to want to arm themselves, and in parts of the U.S. they do it en masse.

[SirBrass]

If we're afraid of some immenant, over-the-top conflict, then we sure as hell wouldn't be packing a pistol, we'd be carrying rifles en masse.

A pistol is a defensive weapon. It is a compromise for carryability over firepower. That someone is ONLY carrying a pistol means they don't expect trouble but are prepared for it if it should happen. And by trouble, I don't mean some mass civil unrest or something like that. That's what bug out bags and defensive rifles are for. No, the trouble I'm talking about is like the armed mugger, or someone going batshit nuts on you (like the car repair shop owner who had a customer go massively violent on him and threaten to kill him before he had to shoot him), or a car hijacker, or some other unlikely but still very possible Very Bad situation.

One of the premier civilian firearms trainers, the retired, and late Lt. Col Jeff Cooper had this "rules of a gunfight" list. It starts out:

Rule 1: If you know if you go to a certain place at a certain time that you'll be in a gunfight, don't be there.

Rule 2: If you must be there, bring a long gun and lots of friends with long guns.

Nothing about carrying pistols or intentionally looking for trouble.

If you're out there with a firearm LOOKING for trouble, you had better also be wearing a legit badge, radio, and backup.

The rest of us are carrying in case trouble of the criminal kind decides to target us, not us going out and looking for it.

As far as what I carry, I normally carry a Dan Wesson V-bobbed Valor Commander (4.25" full frame 1911). For dressier occassions, I carry a Sig Sauer P938 (3" 9mm mouse gun).

I would NEVER get into a full-on armed encounter with either. Not enough ammo. They're for personal self-defense in case I ever (God forbid) have to defend myself with lethal force.

I also carry a knife, but that's more for utilitarian reasons than anything. It can be used tactically, but it mostly is for opening things and cutting into packaging and whatnot. Fantastic tool, though. I use it as much as I do my tac light.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

If we're afraid of some immenant, over-the-top conflict, then we sure as hell wouldn't be packing a pistol, we'd be carrying rifles en masse.

A pistol is a defensive weapon. It is a compromise for carryability over firepower. That someone is ONLY carrying a pistol means they don't expect trouble but are prepared for it if it should happen. And by trouble, I don't mean some mass civil unrest or something like that. That's what bug out bags and defensive rifles are for. No, the trouble I'm talking about is like the armed mugger, or someone going batshit nuts on you (like the car repair shop owner who had a customer go massively violent on him and threaten to kill him before he had to shoot him), or a car hijacker, or some other unlikely but still very possible Very Bad situation.

One of the premier civilian firearms trainers, the retired, and late Lt. Col Jeff Cooper had this "rules of a gunfight" list. It starts out:

Rule 1: If you know if you go to a certain place at a certain time that you'll be in a gunfight, don't be there.

Rule 2: If you must be there, bring a long gun and lots of friends with long guns.

Nothing about carrying pistols or intentionally looking for trouble.

If you're out there with a firearm LOOKING for trouble, you had better also be wearing a legit badge, radio, and backup.

The rest of us are carrying in case trouble of the criminal kind decides to target us, not us going out and looking for it.

As far as what I carry, I normally carry a Dan Wesson V-bobbed Valor Commander (4.25" full frame 1911). For dressier occassions, I carry a Sig Sauer P938 (3" 9mm mouse gun).

I would NEVER get into a full-on armed encounter with either. Not enough ammo. They're for personal self-defense in case I ever (God forbid) have to defend myself with lethal force.

I also carry a knife, but that's more for utilitarian reasons than anything. It can be used tactically, but it mostly is for opening things and cutting into packaging and whatnot. Fantastic tool, though. I use it as much as I do my tac light.

Once again, no disrespect.


If I am forced to take someone's life or even threaten to, then the situation is definitely "over the top". Not just a zombie apoc or some mass event. To me "over the top" is ANY encounter where lethal force (or even the threat of) is the only option.

This is often where many gun owner's go wrong. They have a hammer to solve a problem that could have had other solutions. All conflicts begin to look like nails, especially when the adrenaline is rushing. Gun ownership doesn't come with conflict resolution training. When a potential threat is identified force becomes THE option, THE SMART option. "Why risk my life when this bozo shouldn't be threatening me?" "My gun is the smartest option here". Relying on a piece ends up precluding walking or even running away. Which IMO can both be better options.

Yes, there are always exceptions to when non-lethal options aren't the best idea. My life experience growing up in one of the worst neighborhoods in the United States suggests those times are rarer than many gun-owners think.

I've been threatened with all manner of weapons mostly when I was young (fists, bats, pipes, knives, a pistol and shotgun). I'm glad I wasn't armed in those moments because I probably would have removed someone's dumb, macho, drunk, mentally ill or stoned brother, father, or son. Or perhaps things wouldn't have gone to plan and I removed an bystander or child with a stray (seems to happen all the time). Instead, I used my brain, and in some cases my legs. No guarantee of working but neither is a firearm.

A great many of the gun owner's I speak to often fantasize about how they will deploy their weapon if someone threatens them. Or worse what could happen if they were threatened and didn't have their weapon. Having a CCW and thinking about how to deploy a gun isn't preparedness. Preparedness would include actual training in verbal conflict resolution, situational awareness, and non-lethal self-defense (with and without a weapon). I would guess that a very small percentage of gun owners have any of this. Just their gun. There are indeed other options, but rarely to an armed person.

With all that being said, I have next to no problems with armed people. I spend a fair amount of time with them (family). A firearm in the nightstand, car, holster or safe doesn't necessarily make them safer, just more likely of harming someone including themselves.

-end

p.s. this fork in the thread was only meant to explain some of the strangeness of a populace that, in certain locations, has so many armed people to @f0rge. If I went off on a rant, mah bad.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by blur

I've been eyeing this one for a while. Living in NYC is a pain though with all the gun regulations. I do frequently see scoped M16s at my base though... crazy stuff.

BTW, why would you want to carry a concealed weapon? Just out of curiosity.

Umm... protection. LOL.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by f0rge

There's literally never been a time in my 33 years where I would have been better off if I had a gun.

There's literally never been a time in my 41 years where I would have been better off with a fire extinguisher or a smoke detector.

Yet, for some reason, I keep them around.