Do I need shorter endlinks?

[gpvecchi]

I recently adjusted my coilovers to -32 mm; the rear sway bar angle obviously changed.
Reading around the internet, I found contrasting opinions, so I'm asking the gurus here.
Somebody says that the bar has to be parallel to ground, somebody says (Eibach itself too) that the angle is not important, but adjustable endlinks are made just to remove preload dued to different weights of both sides of the car.
Obviously they are needed in case of contact with car body...

[NoHaveMSG]

Angle is not important. The important part is taking any preload out of the bar at static ride height.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Angle is not important. The important part is taking any preload out of the bar at static ride height.

Agreed, but I’m also having a problem where I can’t install the rear endlinks without preload. It seems like since I’m lowered, I need to force the endlink rods towards the front of the car to get the ball joint to slip on through.

I wish there was an option like Kartboy (which has different sized spacers to choose from that fix this issue), but instead having a ball joint up in place of the upper poly bushing.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

Agreed, but I’m also having a problem where I can’t install the rear endlinks without preload. It seems like since I’m lowered, I need to force the endlink rods towards the front of the car to get the ball joint to slip on through.

I wish there was an option like Kartboy (which has different sized spacers to choose from that fix this issue), but instead having a ball joint up in place of the upper poly bushing.

Maybe try a set with spherical ends. I know Perrin makes a set but they are pricey. I actually need to shorten my end links some more. The tip of the sway bar is smacking the underside of the car.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Maybe try a set with spherical ends. I know Perrin makes a set but they are pricey. I actually need to shorten my end links some more. The tip of the sway bar is smacking the underside of the car.

I've done spherical before, but I've ran through the bearings pretty quickly. I would be more eager to do them again if I had a bearing tool and a bunch of extra bearings, but I'm looking for a more one and done solution this time around.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

I've done spherical before, but I've ran through the bearings pretty quickly. I would be more eager to do them again if I had a bearing tool and a bunch of extra bearings, but I'm looking for a more one and done solution this time around.

Really? That is surprising. I don't have endlinks from them, but the sphericals on my RacerX parts are going strong after years of DD'ing and NW rain. I even bought spares thinking I needed to replace them but they are still good.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Really? That is surprising. I don't have endlinks from them, but the sphericals on my RacerX parts are going strong after years of DD'ing and NW rain. I even bought spares thinking I needed to replace them but they are still good.

Yeah I installed them only like 5 months ago and they have noticeable wear. My original idea was to sell them while they were still good, but upon pulling them out I could shake the lower bearings in their races, and upon taking channel locks to the upper ball joints, I could compress them every so slightly which is an indication of a bad ball joint. They are now nice display pieces in my garage . The craftsmanship on them is so nice I cant bear to throw to them out!

The premature wear may have to do with the extreme angle my endlinks had, but I would think a spherical bearing could resist impact the same as if it were at any other angle...

I think I'm going to either do Kartboy or those new Whiteline rear endlinks and add some custom length spacers/adapters so I can shift the endlinks back and forth relative to the lower control arms.

[marco_mc22]

If you’re not planning to corner balance your car well…they’re absolutely not necessary at all as angle shouldn’t change anything; I mean they’re a nice feature to have (especially if custom ones have an harder bush or a spherical joint) but while they’re a must in the front for obvious clearance issues while lowered in the rear it’s almost impossible to have these problems, getting rid of any kind of preload is the only feature there IMO.

[x808drifter]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

Yeah I installed them only like 5 months ago and they have noticeable wear. My original idea was to sell them while they were still good, but upon pulling them out I could shake the lower bearings in their races, and upon taking channel locks to the upper ball joints, I could compress them every so slightly which is an indication of a bad ball joint. They are now nice display pieces in my garage . The craftsmanship on them is so nice I cant bear to throw to them out!

The premature wear may have to do with the extreme angle my endlinks had, but I would think a spherical bearing could resist impact the same as if it were at any other angle...

I think I'm going to either do Kartboy or those new Whiteline rear endlinks and add some custom length spacers/adapters so I can shift the endlinks back and forth relative to the lower control arms.

Offers to the gods of speed.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Angle is not important.

I am going to disagree. I offer the follow reasoning (and I'm happy to be corrected).
I'm suggesting the leverage on the sway bar is different depending on the angle.

[gpvecchi]

Mmmh, I'm thinking of a pedal of a bike: when it's parallel to ground you need a little less torque than when it's oblique. Second order forces.
But, with stock suspensions, is the bar horizontal?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I am going to disagree. I offer the follow reasoning (and I'm happy to be corrected).
I'm suggesting the leverage on the sway bar is different depending on the angle.



Attachment 202429

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think there is room to cause a severe enough angle change in our cars to make a difference. When I say difference, I mean meaningful driver noticeable difference, we can see changes doing the math all day. Most drivers I would say can't tell.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think there is room to cause a severe enough angle change in our cars to make a difference. When I say difference, I mean meaningful driver noticeable difference, we can see changes doing the math all day. Most drivers I would say can't tell.

I agree. On my 04 WRX with a perrin adjustable and kart boy endlinks, the second setting is easy to set for one side but tough for the other. There is definitely a little bit of preload. Driven like that for years, car corners great and no bad effects for DD and spirited mountain runs. I had planned to get adjustable, but after no issues I skipped it. So far so good.

[Stomachbuzz]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Really? That is surprising. I don't have endlinks from them, but the sphericals on my RacerX parts are going strong after years of DD'ing and NW rain. I even bought spares thinking I needed to replace them but they are still good.

Unfortunately, I did not have the same experience.
I bought RacerX front and rear adjustable sway bar end links, both sets with spherical joints, unprotected - no dust boot at all.
I replaced them when switching to Eibach sway bars.

Immediately, upon leaving my garage after doing the work, the rear had a clunking. Put it back on the lift, could not find anything loose.
I decided to look more thoroughly later and ended up parking the car for 8 months.

When driving it again, not only were the rears very noisy, but now the fronts groan and moan like crazy. Turning the wheel all the way to one side, you can clearly see surface rust and pitting in the spherical joint.

The parts had maybe 200 miles on them in total at this point.

Checked the rears again. No luck.
Dropped the car off at a shop to look. They had no recommendation.

Drove the car as-is for 2,000 miles or so. The noise got so bad I just removed my rear endlinks entirely. The aluminum bushings that the bolt goes through were moderately deformed.

Sucks these damn adjustable endlinks are so expensive. Especially the rears. Bought a set of static Perrins to replace the fronts.

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I am going to disagree. I offer the follow reasoning (and I'm happy to be corrected).
I'm suggesting the leverage on the sway bar is different depending on the angle.



Attachment 202429

The change in angle is so slight. Your picture is extremely exaggerated.
We're talking like 90 degrees vs 87 degrees.
Not 90 vs 58