|
Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
11-30-2021, 12:30 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 366
Thanks: 236
Thanked 211 Times in 108 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Aftermarket thermostats
I'm toying with the idea of getting an aftermarket thermostat. Based on opinion the stock radiator has significant thermal capacity left to sink more heat, but most don't advocate changing the thermostat given reliability concerns. However all things considered, I wanted to address two particular potential benefits with the lower coolant temp on my setup:
1. Oil cooling. I'm on the Forester water to oil exchanger and having a larger coolant to oil temperature delta will further reduce oil temperatures. 2. Knock resistance - lower coolant and oil temps would influence cylinder head and bore temps, reducing the tendency to knock. This opens up further tuning potential. There's several choices of thermostats available for our cars: 1. SARD 68C/82C 2. Mishimoto 76C 3. Billion 65C/72C/82C 4. NTCL 82C Common sense will tell that the 82C and 76C ones are who want a drop in... it is very unlikely the stock radiator has enough cooling capacity for the 65C/68C, so those can be easily singled out. From owners' feedback in Minkara in regards to the SARD 82C thermostat the coolant typically settles around 84-86C, and as reference mine on OEM goes about 89-90C on a normal day and 92C on track, this is at night though. The car is stock NA and I'm aware of the potential pitfalls - I'm familiar enough to address tuning related issues, but I wanted to find out from others' experience if it has opened further headway for more spark advance and knock relief. @tomm.brz @steve99 you are my usual go to guys... any thoughts on this? Based on the stock tune (A01G), having a thermostat with an idle warmed up coolant temp at 81C is enough to clear any warmup corrections/compensations, apart from the radiator fan temps. Based on this the Mishimoto seems to hit the spot; I'm aware of the quality issues though. @JIM THEO seen in a previous post that you have the SARD thermostat installed - any feedback is appreciated. For reference the stock thermostat opens at 88C and is fully open at 95C.
__________________
DIY stuff at Compelica Works
Last edited by Compelica; 11-30-2021 at 12:56 PM. |
11-30-2021, 01:10 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,218
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,082 Times in 785 Posts
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
if you reach 92C for example, or more with your current setup, a thermostat that open earlier gives you a bit more headroom in time, but eventually everything will heat soak up to those temperatures as it doesnt aid in the cooling capabilities, it ust opens earlier
warm up will be slower, and temps cruising in highway at not so high load will be slightly colder ... but that s irrelevant really, you gain maybe a single step up in the timing map in some zones |
11-30-2021, 01:34 PM | #3 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 366
Thanks: 236
Thanked 211 Times in 108 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Am aware of the reduced efficiency the colder the block is, hence I'm using the minimum coolant temp in the tune as a reference.
__________________
DIY stuff at Compelica Works
|
|
11-30-2021, 01:49 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: brz 2017 hksv2
Location: italy
Posts: 2,218
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,082 Times in 785 Posts
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
yes probably at the very same time, same situation but with lower thermostat, you could have lets say 90C... you keep then going and racing the car and it goes back up and the time you gained in this case it s what I call the headroom
If you don't usually overheat your coolant to at least 95 at the track, and your goal is to reduce those 92C to 89-90C for a fair more time, then I guess yes that could work for you To me it's not so worthy mostly because personally i dont think you gain much about knock resistance and oil temperature but maybe wait for other opinions |
11-30-2021, 01:53 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Northwest Iowa
Posts: 7,359
Thanks: 454
Thanked 4,548 Times in 2,950 Posts
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
TLDR: it's not really gonna help you because you're still limited by radiator cooling capacity. Spend the money on ducting or a bigger core instead. Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Ashikabi For This Useful Post: | dragoontwo (11-30-2021) |
11-30-2021, 01:58 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Drives: 22 BRZ limited
Location: Clarksville TN
Posts: 1,198
Thanks: 219
Thanked 1,007 Times in 530 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Going to a lower opening thermostat will not get you more cooling. You will still end up at 92C stabilized temp once the whole cooling system heat soaks(stabilizes temp). The only way to try to cool more is to add more mass(coolant), or airflow into the system.
You will gain a marginal amount of time opening at a lower temp, but your stable temp will be the same because you haven't changed your cooling system. |
11-30-2021, 02:12 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Northwest Iowa
Posts: 7,359
Thanks: 454
Thanked 4,548 Times in 2,950 Posts
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk |
|
11-30-2021, 02:17 PM | #8 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 366
Thanks: 236
Thanked 211 Times in 108 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
https://www.sard.co.jp/parts/products/cooling/thermo/ - see the note at the bottom of the page. Quote:
It's not the additional cooling I'm after, a lower thermostat cannot bend physics nor magically give you more cooling than the radiator can provide - but if I could have the engine running at a lower temperature with more heat pushed to the radiator closer to its capacity and reap the assumed gains is my goal.
__________________
DIY stuff at Compelica Works
|
||
11-30-2021, 02:21 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Drives: 22 BRZ limited
Location: Clarksville TN
Posts: 1,198
Thanks: 219
Thanked 1,007 Times in 530 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
It means you haven't maxed out the stock capacity. You have overhead to put more heat into the system. You can not run the system cooler unless you move more heat out. Changing the thermostat will not do this.
|
11-30-2021, 02:23 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Northwest Iowa
Posts: 7,359
Thanks: 454
Thanked 4,548 Times in 2,950 Posts
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk |
|
11-30-2021, 02:36 PM | #11 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Drives: 86 GT
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 366
Thanks: 236
Thanked 211 Times in 108 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
But yeah that's the gist - the only variable now is that how much cooling capacity of the radiator is left. Probably can be calculated with some math but I'm going with the stock tune to infer - I added it to the previous post but both fans only turn on at 103C.
__________________
DIY stuff at Compelica Works
|
||
11-30-2021, 02:40 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Northwest Iowa
Posts: 7,359
Thanks: 454
Thanked 4,548 Times in 2,950 Posts
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk |
|
11-30-2021, 04:07 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2020
Drives: 22 BRZ limited
Location: Clarksville TN
Posts: 1,198
Thanks: 219
Thanked 1,007 Times in 530 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
As said before, the 92C you are seeing is the temp your coolant is stabilizing at. Opening the thermostat earlier will cause it to take longer to reach 92C, but you will still reach it depending on how long your track sessions are. |
|
11-30-2021, 05:39 PM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: Northwest Iowa
Posts: 7,359
Thanks: 454
Thanked 4,548 Times in 2,950 Posts
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Using OEM Mic for Aftermarket Radio AND/OR Replacing OEM Mic with Aftermarket Mic | ecko04 | Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment | 10 | 05-05-2018 04:47 PM |
Aftermarket Headunit with Aftermarket Amp | Jollibee86 | Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment | 2 | 04-04-2018 10:39 PM |
WTB aftermarket Oil cap | BlackyRose | Want-To-Buy Requests | 2 | 10-16-2013 12:14 PM |
How does TC/VSC act with aftermarket LSD? | empower-auto | Engine, Exhaust, Transmission | 5 | 12-06-2012 08:48 AM |
Aftermarket Amp Kit for FRS | kombatlion | Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment | 7 | 11-06-2012 03:03 PM |