How Does the Alfa 4C Stack Up Against the Toyota GT 86 / Scion FR-S & Porsche Cayman?

[DAEMANO]

3 great cars and different price points. The Alpha has a great form. The Porsche is refined.

Several points made in the video really spoke to me about the '86.

- At 4:40 (driving the Alpha looking ahead at the GT'86) "Something tells me, he's having more fun than I am here."

- At 4:48 (pointing at the '86 from the Alpha) "I want to be in that car!"

- And everything after 5:00 while driving the '86.

Some people want prestige from their car, or are brand loyal. I don't care for that kind of prestige and am not brand loyal. Fun, trackability, good throttle response, RWD, some utility, good looks, low costs, new not used. FR-S was the best choice.

[utekineir]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

. I don't care for that kind of prestige and am not brand loyal. Fun, trackability, good throttle response, RWD, some utility, good looks, low costs, new not used. FR-S was the best choice.

This exactly,

The fact that out of warranty and old it will be retard simple to fix at home is a bonus too.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

I'm honestly waiting for ANY video with good tires on the 86? Why do they always track it on crappy eco tires and then compare it to cars that come factory with better rubber?

youre blaming the wrong people. its the toyotas fault. im sure if you offered to put decent tires on a test car for a reiviewer, they would look into it.

Originally Posted by Boxer486

A new stock Club PRHT costs $29.5K. I don't know the hell you $27K w/ a blower, suspension, intake, exhaust. roll bar and clutch. You tack welding coat hangers in your garage?

Quicker, but not faster. A miata will never have the high speed stability and aero efficiency of the FRS let alone the corner exit speed. If you want fun and nimble, get a Lotus or MR2. Miata is just a poser car by comparison. Once you go lightweight MR, all things Miata are just a joke.

quicker means faster. those words are synonymous. why would you buy a prht club miata other than to use that ridiculous msrp (even though you can buy a new one for 25k here in socal). just like the miata, the frs wont have the stability or speed of a 27k mustang so why stop with the frs? its a slippery slope and stopping in the middle arbitrarily isfoolish.

you can call a miata a joke but it shows you dont know what you are talking about. on the west coast buttonwillow is the standard test of what is fast. i think the fastest miata to lap there ran a 1:51xx. i would love for you to show me an elise, mr2 or even a twin that gets close.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by fatoni

youre blaming the wrong people. its the toyotas fault. im sure if you offered to put decent tires on a test car for a reiviewer, they would look into it.

quicker means faster. those words are synonymous. why would you buy a prht club miata other than to use that ridiculous msrp (even though you can buy a new one for 25k here in socal). just like the miata, the frs wont have the stability or speed of a 27k mustang so why stop with the frs? its a slippery slope and stopping in the middle arbitrarily isfoolish.

you can call a miata a joke but it shows you dont know what you are talking about. on the west coast buttonwillow is the standard test of what is fast. i think the fastest miata to lap there ran a 1:15xx. i would love for you to show me an elise, mr2 or even a twin that gets close.

Quick means quick (nimble/agile), fast means fast (top speed, etc). Buy a dictionary.

I didn't compare the Mustang because it's an aerodynamic brick which is only somehow superior in your mind. You think a Mustang is more stable? That's crazy talk. Why not a school bus w/ some turbines, that should work for you.

PHRT is closest you can get to having a coupe, not that even with a soft top you could get a new Miata with any of the options you claimed you could have for the same price of a FRS. Ridiculous.

And BS on 1:15, that's on Streets of Willow, no way is that Buttonwillow. You've obviously never raced there to even know the difference. To help you out, Streets is a 'quick' technical track. Buttonwillow is a 'fast' track. Streets is anything but a measure of speed as it has nothing remotely highspeed about it except that one short straight which is usually uphill when going counterclockwise. Nothing like Buttonwillow.

Here's the Evasive GT86 doing 1:49.6 barely prepped and detuned which is not far off the overall record for modified/limited class.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dbXk82Uih8"]Evasive FR-S Testing at Buttonwillow CW13 12-15-13 1:49.6 - YouTube[/ame]

I don't seem to see any Miatas doing jack for shit at Buttonwillow. Except maybe rolling over into a ball of fire. Oh look, here's one doing 2:07. How adorable.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SREIt6fUNU"]Speedventures Miata Challenge at Buttonwillow #13 2:07.6 lap on 1/30/11 - YouTube[/ame]

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by fatoni

youre blaming the wrong people. its the toyotas fault. im sure if you offered to put decent tires on a test car for a reiviewer, they would look into it.

Here. 2 seconds.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_IWa_qlt3g"]2013 Scion FR-S - YouTube[/ame]

[Boxer486]

Where is this 1:15 Miata of which you speak?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Quick means quick (nimble/agile), fast means fast (top speed, etc). Buy a dictionary.

I didn't compare the Mustang because it's an aerodynamic brick which is only somehow superior in your mind. You think a Mustang is more stable? That's crazy talk. Why not a school bus w/ some turbines, that should work for you.

PHRT is closest you can get to having a coupe, not that even with a soft top you could get a new Miata with any of the options you claimed you could have for the same price of a FRS. Ridiculous.

And BS on 1:15, that's on Streets of Willow, no way is that Buttonwillow. You've obviously never raced there to even know the difference. To help you out, Streets is a 'quick' technical track. Buttonwillow is a 'fast' track. Streets is anything but a measure of speed as it has nothing remotely highspeed about it except that one short straight which is usually uphill when going counterclockwise. Nothing like the right handed banker on Buttonwillow.

Here's the Evasive GT86 doing 1:49.6 barely prepped and detuned which is not far off the overall record for modified/limited class.

I don't seem to see any Miatas doing jack for shit at Buttonwillow. Except maybe rolling over into a ball of fire. Oh look, here's one doing 2:07. How adorable.

i dont need a dictionary. you do. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fast?s=t note the use of the word quick. those terms describe the amount of time to accomplish something. thats it.
yeah that 1:15 was a typo and i edited it to say the 1:51 i meant. sorry about that.

phrt isnt any closer to a coupe than a soft top and in under a minute i found a miata for 20111 and all the stuff i mentioned for 7650.

thats a cool video of the evasive frs but calling it barely prepped is very misleading. either way, calling the miata a joke is nuts but you can go ahead and just post a random video of a miata running a 2:07. if i showed you a video of a brz running a 2:08 would you believe the miata was faster than the brz? of course not because a video doesnt prove that the car cant go faster than that.

i would like to see an mr2 and an elise go faster than the numbers i posted though since you still seem to think the miata is a joke while those cars are not.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i would like to see an mr2 and an elise go faster than the numbers i posted though since you still seem to think the miata is a joke while those cars are not.

Fine. 1:24 Elise here:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiR7fy3HhZU"]Streets of Willow Lotus Elise 11/29/9 - YouTube[/ame]

Oh, so if I accelerate 0-60 in 3.5secs but my top speed is 110mph versus another that does it in 5.5 secs yet it hits 175 mph, which is quick and which is fast?

Soo, you're new Miata package is actually $28K predicated on getting a new one with delivery for $20K. So which FRS MSRP are you comparing that to? Who is exaggerating their numbers again?

Meh it's barely prepped in the sense that its a Pike's Peak car running at 4/5ths around BW. I don't think that's a time attack setup for BW.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Fine. 1:24 Elise here:

the 1:51 was for buttonwillow. i think the fastest miata around streets was 1:20.6

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the 1:51 was for buttonwillow. i think the fastest miata around streets was 1:20.6

Show me both. I want to see what was done to them and what track configuration was used for their times that you feel compelled to push the Miata as god's gift to sports cars.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Show me both. I want to see what was done to them and what track configuration was used for their times that you feel compelled to push the Miata as god's gift to sports cars.

they are numbers i pulled from trackhq. i have no reason to doubt them considering the community. they are pretty serious miatas in both instances but i dont think either is backed by a big shop (maybe 949 or trackspeed but still nowhere near what evasive is). i dont think the miata is gods gift to anyone. i just think its far from a joke. especially when you take the time to bring things up like the mr2. im not sure if the elise has enough space for front tire to be as fast as the really fast miatas. combine that with the fact that the aftermarket is bigger for the miata than it is for all other cars you mentioned combined and you get some miatas with crazy fast times. if i ever outgrow my track miata i will probably get an s2k and then a vette. the mr2, elise and as of now the frs just dont make sense for the track imo

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by fatoni

they are numbers i pulled from trackhq. i have no reason to doubt them considering the community. they are pretty serious miatas in both instances but i dont think either is backed by a big shop (maybe 949 or trackspeed but still nowhere near what evasive is). i dont think the miata is gods gift to anyone. i just think its far from a joke. especially when you take the time to bring things up like the mr2. im not sure if the elise has enough space for front tire to be as fast as the really fast miatas. combine that with the fact that the aftermarket is bigger for the miata than it is for all other cars you mentioned combined and you get some miatas with crazy fast times. if i ever outgrow my track miata i will probably get an s2k and then a vette. the mr2, elise and as of now the frs just dont make sense for the track imo

If I had to guess it would be Gordon Jennings' 1994 Rotrex Miata supercharged to 400hp running Hoosiers. Of course not a new Miata with the crap stock suspension let alone stock tires.

Miata is fine, but not my thing for a quick fun drive. I'll take the lower weight and better/later braking in a 2000lb MR. Stock for stock, that's my preference which is why I never bought into a Miata. Plus the experience of having the engine behind your head is unlike anything you'll ever get from a Miata. I'd only consider one for the PRHT tbh. If you want silly speed, a V6 swap in an MR looks like fun. Throwing the Miata in the face of the FRS/BRZ just makes no sense. Better to compare it to it's peers of which I feel there are better alternatives anyway except wrt aftermarket support.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

If I had to guess it would be Gordon Jennings' 1994 Rotrex Miata supercharged to 400hp. Of course not a new Miata with the crap stock suspension.

Miata is fine, but not my thing for a quick fun drive. I'll take the lower weight and better/later braking in a 2000lb MR. Stock for stock, that's my preference which is why I never bought into a Miata. Plus the experience of having the engine behind your head is unlike anything you'll ever get from a Miata. I'd only consider one for the PRHT tbh. If you want silly speed, a V6 swap in an MR looks like fun.

yeah well neither the elise or mr2 are new so i thought we threw that criteria out the window. goodwin racing did a sub minute horsethief lap so i dont think the new miata has crap suspension. if anything, its better inherently than the frs.

dont get me wrong, i adore what the mr2 and elise are about. every time i drive my friends 2zz swap, i kinda wish i bought it when he was having trouble with smog instead of the brz. my only point was that the miata will take you very far and there is a real reason that it is the most raced car in the world.

[Suberman]

The Alfa is clearly the fastest car and the easiest to drive. On the street the extra torque from the turbo and the understeer will help any driver drive more quickly.

What this video really shows is how much better the Toyota/Subaru could be if it could put its meagre power down.

Superficially the Toyota looks like "more fun" but it is very hard to drive it quickly.

Every competent driver who gets one of these on a track finds the same fault: too much oversteer and too easily reached. The car is slower than it could be because the rear end won't put the power down.