Oil changes/Fumoto valve...

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

As for the extractor, it's not about the amount of oil. It's about sucking oil through a tube that engineers didn't design oil to be sucked out of. If nothing else, I don't like the idea of coating the entire inside of the oil pan/sump and everything else with the used contaminated oil when I can drain it through the bottom as it was designed to leaving whatever particles might be in the oil at the bottom of the pan. Also, having being an engineer, I am always leery of placing any kind of pressure or vacuum on a system that wasn't designed for that.

And yes, I don't like people I don't know and trust driving my car at anytime for any reason (one of many, many reasons I don't like/use valets - ever).

What are you talking about? Oil extractors are the default oil drain process for Benzes, has been for literal DECADES. A Benz's engine/sump design is not in any way different than anyone else's to accommodate the extractor. Since then VW/Audi do too and a lot of BMW did before they removed the dipsticks. It works just fine, the only reason othershops don't do it is that the extractors and their maintenance cost more than a dumb wrench and crush washer.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Hey, that's great. You do you. And that you have found an awesome shop that works on Ferraris, Saleens, and Lambos that is willing to take time out from their exotic car repair schedule to give you a quality oil change for $55 is impressive. Go for it. But for me, I don't have that option (and doubt I would use it if I could) because it is more convenient, on my schedule, to do it in my garage.

As for the extractor, it's not about the amount of oil. It's about sucking oil through a tube that engineers didn't design oil to be sucked out of. If nothing else, I don't like the idea of coating the entire inside of the oil pan/sump and everything else with the used contaminated oil when I can drain it through the bottom as it was designed to leaving whatever particles might be in the oil at the bottom of the pan. Also, having being an engineer, I am always leery of placing any kind of pressure or vacuum on a system that wasn't designed for that.

And yes, I don't like people I don't know and trust driving my car at anytime for any reason (one of many, many reasons I don't like/use valets - ever).

Where did I say $55? You can't buy an OEM filter and 7 quarts of quality synthetic for $55. That's why I pointed out $10 more than it would cost me to do it myself. The 135 was a $95 oil change. $85 if I did it myself.

And I don't have to spend an hour in the garage, take the oil to get recycled, etc.

Modern BMWs don't have dipsticks. They pull the oil out through where the filter goes. Which is under pressure when the engine is running. The same place is used for oil extractors on Subaru's.

I'm sure you can find a reputable shop where you live.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Where did I say $55? You can't buy an OEM filter and 7 quarts of quality synthetic for $55. That's why I pointed out $10 more than it would cost me to do it myself. The 135 was a $95 oil change. $85 if I did it myself.

And I don't have to spend an hour in the garage, take the oil to get recycled, etc.

Modern BMWs don't have dipsticks. They pull the oil out through where the filter goes. Which is under pressure when the engine is running. The same place is used for oil extractors on Subaru's.

I'm sure you can find a reputable shop where you live.

Hey all good, bro. First, if it takes you an hour to change your oil, I think we all agree that you should take it to someone else. And you are willing to drive to and from a shop and sit (on their timeline) but unwilling to dump recycled oil every 3-4 oil changes on your own?

As far as cost, the Gen2 takes 5+ quarts and I can get that for $35. An OEM filter costs $10. $45 for me all in for my oil change. I don't know any reputable shop near me that would do the same for less than $90.

Don't know much about extractors. As far as the oil lines being under pressure, that is my point. It's designed to be a positive pressure, not negative pressure or vacuum, situation. Very, very different. Systems that are designed to contain 100s of lbs of pressure often cannot take 10 lbs of vacuum.

And no, nobody is forcing you to do your own oil changes. As I said, if it takes you an hour, you probably shouldn't be doing them anyhow.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

What are you talking about? Oil extractors are the default oil drain process for Benzes, has been for literal DECADES. A Benz's engine/sump design is not in any way different than anyone else's to accommodate the extractor. Since then VW/Audi do too and a lot of BMW did before they removed the dipsticks. It works just fine, the only reason othershops don't do it is that the extractors and their maintenance cost more than a dumb wrench and crush washer.

Never done the research. I have no idea whether a certain oil system is designed to be put under negative pressure or not. Having said that, my point stands. There are very specific engineering concerns with negative and positive pressure environments. They CAN be designed to do both. They are not NECESSARILY designed to do both. That's all I am saying.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Never done the research. I have no idea whether a certain oil system is designed to be put under negative pressure or not. Having said that, my point stands. There are very specific engineering concerns with negative and positive pressure environments. They CAN be designed to do both. They are not NECESSARILY designed to do both. That's all I am saying.

There's crank case vacuum, all throttle body engines experience quite a lot of it at idle because the intake manifold is sucking on the PCV system extra hard with the throttle body closed. The weird 'no throttle body' engines that do all their throttle control through variable valve timing and lift still have an external system to pull a vacuum on the crankcase, it's desirable to help the piston rings make a good seal and to keep you from leaving a ton of oil on the cylinder walls when the piston retreats.

Besides, you won't get good enough seal on the tube that you slide in to actually pull a vacuum, it's not a press fit tube. That's like expecting a soda cup to collapse because you're sucking on the straw.

[G_Ride]

I'm using an oil extractor.

A friend with a first gen has been using an oil extractor for his car since he bought it new in 2014. There hasn't been any issues

[KillerBMotorsport]

Running the short Fumoto on our 22 mule without issue.

It's the first mod on every shop car when the break-in oil comes out.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

As for the extractor, it's not about the amount of oil. It's about sucking oil through a tube that engineers didn't design oil to be sucked out of.

You act like a loose fitting plastic tube is pulling a ton of vacuum on the system. It isn't.

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Hey all good, bro. First, if it takes you an hour to change your oil

I read it as, "you only take an hour during an oil change service?" I usually spend more time then that since it is an opportunity to inspect the whole underside of the car while I have it on jackstands.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

There's crank case vacuum, all throttle body engines experience quite a lot of it at idle because the intake manifold is sucking on the PCV system extra hard with the throttle body closed. The weird 'no throttle body' engines that do all their throttle control through variable valve timing and lift still have an external system to pull a vacuum on the crankcase, it's desirable to help the piston rings make a good seal and to keep you from leaving a ton of oil on the cylinder walls when the piston retreats.

Besides, you won't get good enough seal on the tube that you slide in to actually pull a vacuum, it's not a press fit tube. That's like expecting a soda cup to collapse because you're sucking on the straw.

I've actually had soda cups collapse from sucking on the straw, soo...
As I also said, no experience with extractors and don't intend to ever have any when setting out a couple of ramps takes almost no time. Do you want another reason, there is an absolute 0% chance I spill used engine oil all over my engine bay if I drain it from the bottom. Not sure how using an extractor (which a few people do) vs. draining from the bottom (which the vast majority of people do) is such an issue. I mean, you don't use one - why not?

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

You act like a loose fitting plastic tube is pulling a ton of vacuum on the system. It isn't.
I read it as, "you only take an hour during an oil change service?" I usually spend more time then that since it is an opportunity to inspect the whole underside of the car while I have it on jackstands.

As I said, zero knowledge of extractors of any type, so you can tell me whatever you want about how they work. But unless they have a tube that goes all the way down through the line of the oil filter into the bottom of the oil pan (not even sure that is possible - I have no idea of the architecture of most cars, much less the GR86/BRZ), they have to pull at least some vacuum.

By the way, just watched a couple oil extractor videos and I can't think of any good reason to use one, LOL. In most of the videos they left a decent amount of oil in the pan. And believe me, there is a significantly greater than 0% chance you end up dripping (if not spraying) used oil inside your engine bay. Why in the world would anybody do this in favor of couple of ramps???

And speaking of that, if you put your car on jackstands to do an oil change, you and I are already on completely different pages as to what is involved in an oil change.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Hey all good, bro. First, if it takes you an hour to change your oil, I think we all agree that you should take it to someone else. And you are willing to drive to and from a shop and sit (on their timeline) but unwilling to dump recycled oil every 3-4 oil changes on your own?

As far as cost, the Gen2 takes 5+ quarts and I can get that for $35. An OEM filter costs $10. $45 for me all in for my oil change. I don't know any reputable shop near me that would do the same for less than $90.

Don't know much about extractors. As far as the oil lines being under pressure, that is my point. It's designed to be a positive pressure, not negative pressure or vacuum, situation. Very, very different. Systems that are designed to contain 100s of lbs of pressure often cannot take 10 lbs of vacuum.

And no, nobody is forcing you to do your own oil changes. As I said, if it takes you an hour, you probably shouldn't be doing them anyhow.

I like that you continue to attack me because you don't seem to understand modern vehicles.

An hour isn't a long time. The car needs to be up to temp, which in normal driving takes 15-20 minutes. Then pull it in the garage, get it on jack stands, pull the drain plug, give it ample time to drain. Then refill let it idle, ensure no leaks, then check the level again.

JFC dude, why do you try to fight anything that's ever said on this forum?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

As I said, zero knowledge of extractors of any type

You're sounding like a Karen right now. "I have no knowledge of X, but I'm going to tell you why it doesn't work."

You should take a break from the internet for a while.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I like that you continue to attack me because you don't seem to understand modern vehicles.

An hour isn't a long time. The car needs to be up to temp, which in normal driving takes 15-20 minutes. Then pull it in the garage, get it on jack stands, pull the drain plug, give it ample time to drain. Then refill let it idle, ensure no leaks, then check the level again.

JFC dude, why do you try to fight anything that's ever said on this forum?

Why are you even on a thread about using a Fumoto valve/changing oil when you don't even do it? Look in the mirror, bra...

I'm still trying to figure out why you are trying to convince me to use an extractor when you don't even do your own oil changes. Makes no freakin' sense...

As for your procedure for doing an oil change (which you don't do). Drive up to the garage after moderate driving - line the car up straight, open the garage door, grab the ramps, drive up on the ramps, put oil pan under car, release Fumoto valve, unscrew filter, close valve, remove pan, put on new filter, fill oil - 10 minutes tops.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

As I said, zero knowledge of extractors of any type, so you can tell me whatever you want about how they work. But unless they have a tube that goes all the way down through the line of the oil filter into the bottom of the oil pan (not even sure that is possible - I have no idea of the architecture of most cars, much less the GR86/BRZ), they have to pull at least some vacuum.

By the way, just watched a couple oil extractor videos and I can't think of any good reason to use one, LOL. In most of the videos they left a decent amount of oil in the pan. And believe me, there is a significantly greater than 0% chance you end up dripping (if not spraying) used oil inside your engine bay. Why in the world would anybody do this in favor of couple of ramps???

And speaking of that, if you put your car on jackstands to do an oil change, you and I are already on completely different pages as to what is involved in an oil change.

If you are admittedly ignorant on oil extractors then why argue it? If you don't want to use one cool, more than one way to skin a cat. Not everyone has a driveway they can use ramps or stands on so an extractor is a good substitute for a DIY'er that may be in a situation they can't safely get the car in the air. I've used extractors a lot, not for my personal stuff, and have never had any kind of failure with one that resulted in oil going anywhere but the reservoir. And yes, dipsticks go down into the pan, that is where the oil is.

I can't get my car on ramps. If I am going to have it in the air on jackstands I might as well take the opportunity to do a nut and bolt check and inspect things. I am not going to travel 3 hours and have a day cut short because of an issue that could have been easily caught crawling around under the car with a flashlight. I consider an oil change as part of a service, not one job.