Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by thill

Oh, and the Club Spec Miata that is about $1K more than the BRZ Limited does come with Billsteins and an LSD. The BBS wheels and Brembos are the additional upgrade. Saying a $29K MSRP car is close to an STI is a real stretch here people. Many STI's are pushing close to $40K with options and some over that.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Willfull ignorance.

MT used a Series Blue BRZ which has $2500 worth of cosmetic mods. That brings the price of the two vehicles closer but doesn't contribute to performance or feel at all. A $28k series blue BRZ is no faster than a Base $26k FR-S. Still, it get's bought hook line and sinker. "Series Blue" is nothing but cosmetic mods.

No matter if the BBS/Brembo BBK are an upgrade to the Club edition, the Miata still had them. They still contributed to both performance and feel of the tested car (which were lauded in the review). So it's not a $29K Miata its a $32K one.

"people that are serious about the track" would need yet another few $500 - $1500 dollars worth of roll bar to even be allowed to run. That $32K Miata is now $34k. No instead they would get an NA-NC, or 86 for thousands less and be faster.

[pinski]

Originally Posted by spicyricecake

So, what are the lap times for the base ND that is similar to the hardware of the BRZ? isn't that what the whole lightweight, COG, and chassis engineering is all about? Not some bullshit about this car costs 33k with all this performance package, but we will compare it to another car at ~30k with cool bodykits/blue interior?

This is exactly what I want to see. Base ND costs about $25k, base FRS/BRZ is pretty much the same. Find me the base model of both and run a test.

If we ever actually get a performance version, run that against the Club with the Brembo+BBS package. Or hell, find a FRS with the TRD springs and TRD wheels shod with MPSS and run those two. Don't know if the 86 would come out on top, but I guarantee you it'd be closer and a more equal comparison.

That said, the new ND is damn impressive. I want one in my household.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

No instead they would get an NA-NC, or 86 for thousands less and be faster.

This is really the only argument you guys have to stand on, for the same absolute budget an 86 will be faster if you are willing to upgrade the car, and so will other older cars, many of which end up faster than an 86.

But goddamn you guys are absurd to call this test not fair, I go out to buy a sports car for $25-$30k and Mazda has a faster offering off the showroom floor, period. So far two magazines agree and only internet posters disagree.

Does it matter? Well we've posted 25 pages about it so it's hard to argue it doesn't at this point...

[thill]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Willfull ignorance.

MT used a Series Blue BRZ which has $2500 worth of cosmetic mods. That brings the price of the two vehicles closer but doesn't contribute to performance or feel at all. A $28k series blue BRZ is no faster than a Base $26k FR-S. Still, it get's bought hook line and sinker. "Series Blue" is nothing but cosmetic mods.

No matter if the BBS/Brembo BBK are an upgrade to the Club edition, the Miata still had them. They still contributed to both performance and feel of the tested car (which were lauded in the review). So it's not a $29K Miata its a $32K one.

"people that are serious about the track" would need yet another few $500 - $1500 dollars worth of roll bar to even be allowed to run. That $32K Miata is now $34k. No instead they would get an NA-NC, or 86 for thousands less and be faster.

Anyone that is looking to buy an occasional track/fun car is going to take into account cost and the factors you highlighted. The FR-S/BRZ has the price advantage as you highlighted but it's not that much when you compare a BRZ Limited to a Miata Club Spec. You can bitch and moan about this being an unfair comparison all you want but the numbers are the numbers. I seriously doubt the BBS/Brembo package adds huge performance gains vs the regular club spec.

I dunno, it is what it is. Perhaps you should not watch these types of comparison videos and support Motor Trend if it bothers you this much. I don't believe this was intentionally done by Motor Trend to skew the results towards the Miata.

It sounds like you bought the right car at the right price. And if we want get into used cars and performance, there are a hell of a lot faster cars than these around a track so that whole debate is pointless.

[Mr.Impreza]

The biggest point here is car makers need to focus on light weight cars instead heavy cars with lots of HP.

[tahdizzle]

[tahdizzle]

They need to focus on putting a fa20dit in the twins :p

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

They need to focus on putting a fa20dit in the twins :p

but but but....that's not what it was meant for. It will "ruin the balance, and the feels!"

[tahdizzle]

/facepalm

What was I thinking! I'm just not in tune with the spirit of the 86.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

/facepalm

What was I thinking! I'm just not in tune with the spirit of the 86.

You can say that again...Tada himself told me it would ruin the spirit. Next gen is supposed to be detuned to put out 150 hp and 51 tq!

[tahdizzle]

Momentum BEAST!

None of that pesky torque to upset the car mid corner.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by raven1231

You can say that again...Tada himself told me it would ruin the spirit. Next gen is supposed to be detuned to put out 150 hp and 51 tq!

This The 2020 FRS will be 1.5L with a turbo charger pushing IIRC 180hp but will also be lighter based of the Miata chassis. This is for the FRS though not the BRZ.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by spicyricecake

It is hard to see your point that these two are "similar trim levels" seeing as how the 30k trim for BRZ is just appearance/aero packages, whereas the ND's upper trim level is performance oriented.

I didn't say they were similar trim levels, I said both cars have trim levels that cover roughly the same price range. It's not Mazda's fault that there's no performance-oriented trim of the BRZ.

Also, let's not forget that the Miata is a convertible. Typically cars that are available as coupes or convertibles are at least $5k more expensive with the drop top. For a lot of people here, that's not going to be a selling point, but in general, I think it's pretty hard to make a value argument against ND.

Originally Posted by spicyricecake

Not trying to say our cars are the best at all. I talk smack about our cars all the time. It's slow as hell! no torque! But you have to also remember that the ND in this video had performance tires, whereas the BRZ was stuck with the primacy. I believe those 2 seconds gap would close with similar hardware.

In the post where I linked the video, I said exactly that, the performance gap would disappear if you put both cars on the same tires.

Originally Posted by spicyricecake

So, what are the lap times for the base ND that is similar to the hardware of the BRZ? isn't that what the whole lightweight, COG, and chassis engineering is all about? Not some bullshit about this car costs 33k with all this performance package, but we will compare it to another car at ~30k with cool bodykits/blue interior?

Don't get me wrong, the ND looks fun and I'm impressed with the results. But if I had 34k to spend on a car, I wouldn't be getting the club spec ND. There's much more to be had for that. I would not have paid MSRP for the series blue either (I bought mine used for much less).

my $0.2

So why not test it with all the available equipment? You can walk into a Mazda dealer and drive away a car that has all of those things, you don't have to buy and install them aftermarket, so it's a fair comparison. They named the trim level, and they showed what the base price would have been -- in fact, if anything, they showed a base price for the ND that was too high, because they showed the price of the Club ND without the Brembos, not the price of the Sport ND.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by thill

Anyone that is looking to buy an occasional track/fun car is going to take into account cost and the factors you highlighted. The FR-S/BRZ has the price advantage as you highlighted but it's not that much when you compare a BRZ Limited to a Miata Club Spec. You can bitch and moan about this being an unfair comparison all you want but the numbers are the numbers. I seriously doubt the BBS/Brembo package adds huge performance gains vs the regular club spec.

Exactly. Anyone who looks at those lap times and prices, and makes a snap decision on which car to buy without researching trim levels, options, or even just *GASP* test driving both cars is going to get what their laziness deserves. In fact, I would bet that that kind of buyer is unlikely to end up with either of these cars.