07-14-2022, 08:19 AM | #113 | |
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I don't care for a track-only car, but for a dual-use vehicle, I'm not going to pay over 35K for a vehicle with the interior quality of the Twins. |
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07-14-2022, 08:49 AM | #114 |
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@ZDan I mostly agree with you except for the "coddling rich people" statement.
The manufacturers build what will sell and unfortunately base cars (as I would define it from the 60's and 70's) don't sell any longer. Even the least expensive entry level cars sold these days (at least in the US) are expected to have air conditioning, electric everything, cruise control, a head unit (vs a radio), and a minimum of 152 cup holders, not to mention all the safety gizmos either dictated by the government or the competition. That's not "coddling to rich people" that's good business, by building what sells. As @series.trackday stated, very few people are going to pay for the performance of a sports car without some expectation of a level of luxury above a base Toyota Corolla. Well, except maybe enthusiasts that specifically seek that out, but to do that you are going to pay extra because it's going to be a bespoke, limited build vehicle.
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07-14-2022, 09:30 AM | #115 | |||
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You guys are kinda missing the point I think...
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Interior quality of the twins is OK with me. I like my BRZ's interior better than I liked my '11 Cayman's. I specifically didn't buy a WRX in the mid '00s because of interior so it's not like I don't care. No qualms whatsoever about my '17 PP interior. Other than extremely laggy touchscreen infotainment (don't get me started on how touchscreens with menus suck). Quote:
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"Coddling" also includes stroking egos with huge power numbers and performance numbers to point to. But yeah, people's tastes aren't the same now vs. 60s/70s. Back then people bought smaller lighter-weight sports cars not because they were FAST (any same-era musclecar would destroy them in a straight line), but because they were FUN. Desire for simple basic FUN seems to have waned, and Porsche have decided that the Corvette model of being oversized with massive power was the way to go all along. Doh... |
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07-14-2022, 10:06 AM | #116 | |
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The interior of the Twins is NOT a nice place to be for anything other than track use. Most Subarus' interiors are 10-15 years behind where they should be in terms of design, materials, or quality. Much like their engine design before they partnered with Toyota. I've looked at getting two different generations of WRX STI and couldn't stomach the interior quality. Unlike you, I think my Cayman's interior was much nicer than the BRZ's. I do not find the head unit to be acceptable from a functionality standpoint, the stock audio/speakers (and design) sucks, the feel and look of the interior trim isn't where I'd like it to be and the quality isn't where it should be - on a 5/6 year old car with low mileage, the pleather around the instrument cluster is already loose, there are rattles and squeaks coming from everywhere, and even the dashboard crash pad is actually pleather over hard plastic. As Dadhawk said, it's not "coddling to rich people". The US government has mandated an amount of safety equipment that prohibits passenger cars being under a certain weight and a certain cost. Manufacturer's can't sell a car with 40% of the manufacturing cost being safety equipment because consumers won't pay $26K for a car with pedestrian impact mitigation camera system; auto-braking; front, side, and auxiliary airbag systems, drunk-driving detection system, and active whiplash mitigation head restraints; but with no aircon. That's one of the reasons manufacturers aren't selling certain models in the US, or have completely done away with them (IE Elise/Exige). That leads to a lower bound on what manufacturers can design and product in terms of weight and cost. Lower bound on cost limits the cheapest vehicle you can sell, and that price influences what features/design/quality it has. If your cheapest model is $35,000; you'd better make your $40,000 model a bit nicer with more features, and your $50,000 model a bit more than that. So yeah, cars are heavier. Most of it is directly or indirectly due to government regulations on what safety features vehicles have to have combined with consumers not buying expensive cars with poor features in the name of being light. PS: I don't really think Porsche is making porkers. You can't judge today's cars weight against 70s/80s cars weight, because those things were/are deathtraps. |
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07-14-2022, 10:32 AM | #117 | |
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This leaves the enthusiasts that find the dual-purpose car not fun enough and prefer a purer offering, but that's a small market. Huge kudos for Mazda, Subaru and Toyota for sticking to it! |
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07-14-2022, 10:35 AM | #118 |
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And yet Mazda manages to sell a 2400lb car for $30,000. Do they lose thousands of dollars for every Miata sold? Regulations certainly play a part, but throwing all blame for big and heavy cars on the government alone is disingenuous.
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07-14-2022, 10:40 AM | #119 |
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With "Money No Option" you'd have too barter for a vehicle.
Would you take a jet ski with no motor and a sculling oar on the back and a couple Chipotle coupons?
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07-14-2022, 11:00 AM | #120 |
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You're comment was the question should have been more specific, which in fact, is quite specific. Choosing to follow the premise of the OP's question is a different matter altogether, I didn't. People tend to take the phrase, "money is no object" as if that means you have 44 billion to buy Twitter.
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07-14-2022, 11:10 AM | #121 | ||||||
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70s/80s cars are irrelevant, suffice it to say that progress means today we can build safer cars that weigh less. |
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07-14-2022, 11:19 AM | #122 | |
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Admittedly, I'm not on the "every answer is Miata" team, but there are a LOT of compromises to getting to a Miata size/weight vehicle. We should be thankful one OEM is willing to do it, and they basically have the market cornered. No other OEM sees the need to knock them off their pedestal in any real way, or they would have at least tried in the last 30 years. What I want is a modern MG Midget or Opel GT as a fun run around...
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07-14-2022, 11:28 AM | #123 | ||
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Porsche could *easily* make a mid-engine flat-4 2-seater weighing ~2500 lb. with >250hp. Unfortunately they are no longer interested in building legit minimalist lightweight sports cars. Quote:
Last edited by ZDan; 07-14-2022 at 11:43 AM. |
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07-14-2022, 11:34 AM | #124 |
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07-14-2022, 11:50 AM | #125 | |
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Honestly, I wish more of these type cars existed as well, but wishing isn't going to make it happen, so we need to support the ones that do. (Given my next car will likely weigh 6000lbs, I suppose that's a bit hypocritical of me!)
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Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark. What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk". Last edited by Dadhawk; 07-15-2022 at 03:18 PM. |
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07-14-2022, 12:18 PM | #126 |
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Right now the FR-S - BRZ - GR86 is the only answer for me. I don't fit in a Miata and the rest are too expensive.
The second car will always be something more comfortable/practical but still cheaper. I toyed with buying more expensive cars but in the end can't pull the trigger. They're a money pit... |
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