1-2 second clutch vibration while

[incriminati]

While I'm waiting to find out if my vehicle is part of the new valve spring recall, I figured I'd ask about an issue I've been having.

When taking off in first gear, I feel a vibration for a bit. I feel it in the clutch, or at least that's what I think I'm feeling it with. The whole car doesn't shake.

The best way I can describe it is the clutch vibrating for a second or two until it fully engages and grabs.

I don't have any other issues, no sounds, the car pulls in all gears, and no vibrations in any other gears.

It seems to go away as the car is warmed up. The car drives like it always has and I'm not sure if this was present when I first got the car brand new or not. I've had this vibration it for years, at least 3 that I remember.

Any idea what it is? It's a 2013 BRZ manufactured in 2012. I have 35k miles on approximately.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I read about the TOB issue, but it doesn't seem like that based on the symptoms I've read.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by incriminati

While I'm waiting to find out if my vehicle is part of the new valve spring recall, I figured I'd ask about an issue I've been having.

When taking off in first gear, I feel a vibration for a bit. I feel it in the clutch, or at least that's what I think I'm feeling it with. The whole car doesn't shake.

The best way I can describe it is the clutch vibrating for a second or two until it fully engages and grabs.

I don't have any other issues, no sounds, the car pulls in all gears, and no vibrations in any other gears.

It seems to go away as the car is warmed up. The car drives like it always has and I'm not sure if this was present when I first got the car brand new or not. I've had this vibration it for years, at least 3 that I remember.

Any idea what it is? It's a 2013 BRZ manufactured in 2012. I have 35k miles on approximately.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I read about the TOB issue, but it doesn't seem like that based on the symptoms I've read.

It sounds like what we used to call over on the Miata forum, "clutch shudder", which was quite common with older miatas.

I haven't heard that description or reference with this car.

Does it do it worse when it is damp/wet outside?

It could be caused by a worn or warped clutch disk, an out of balance pressure plate, a rough flywheel or the dreaded TOB -



humfrz

[incriminati]

Originally Posted by humfrz

It sounds like what we used to call over on the Miata forum, "clutch shudder", which was quite common with older miatas.

I haven't heard that description or reference with this car.

Does it do it worse when it is damp/wet outside?

It could be caused by a worn or warped clutch disk, an out of balance pressure plate, a rough flywheel or the dreaded TOB -



humfrz

Thanks for the reply.

That's the conclusion I came up with, that it was clutch chatter. I hear people calling it shudder/judder as well and I assume it's the same thing.

It's not severe and I'm not noticing any slipping. I'm really at a loss about what to do about it. I guess I can live with it until it gets worse or what have you.

I've tried driving quite a few manual cars and I must say that our transmission is one of the harder to drive. If you're familiar with BMW, Porsche, Audi, heck even regular Toyota, Honda, etc manual transmissions they're all easier to drive than this one it seems. The German ones especially. By easier I mean it's easier to drive smoothly, to perfectly rev match, etc. I understand this is partly due to having a lower catch point and more torque.

But I'm going on a tangent...

I came back here for the valve spring recall and I figured I'd ask about this.

I did hear about the TOB issue. I have no idea what it is, if it's a recall, or what. Just that it's a transmission issue with the throw out bearing. Do you have a link to where I can learn about this issue, how to fix it, etc. Or can you give me a quick rundown.

Thanks again.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by incriminati

Thanks for the reply.

That's the conclusion I came up with, that it was clutch chatter. I hear people calling it shudder/judder as well and I assume it's the same thing.

It's not severe and I'm not noticing any slipping. I'm really at a loss about what to do about it. I guess I can live with it until it gets worse or what have you.

I've tried driving quite a few manual cars and I must say that our transmission is one of the harder to drive. If you're familiar with BMW, Porsche, Audi, heck even regular Toyota, Honda, etc manual transmissions they're all easier to drive than this one it seems. The German ones especially. By easier I mean it's easier to drive smoothly, to perfectly rev match, etc. I understand this is partly due to having a lower catch point and more torque.

But I'm going on a tangent...

I came back here for the valve spring recall and I figured I'd ask about this.

I did hear about the TOB issue. I have no idea what it is, if it's a recall, or what. Just that it's a transmission issue with the throw out bearing. Do you have a link to where I can learn about this issue, how to fix it, etc. Or can you give me a quick rundown.

Thanks again.

Hello again -

If your clutch is "shuddering" there isn't much you can do about it except to open up the clutch assembly and replace parts (like the clutch disk, pressure plate, TOB and replace or resurface the flywheel).

NOTE: There is an outside chance that replacing the clutch hydraulic fluid and bleed the system of air - could smooth out the clutch operation.

As far as operating this transmission, yes, several people find it relatively difficult. Yes, it is rather precise in it's operation and does require additional attention to timing as compared to some other transmissions.

As far as the TOB (throw out bearing or release bearing) in this car, it has been a bad actor, especially with cars over 50,000 some miles. Apparently the grease in the TOB just sort of gives up after several miles and the bearing heats up and crashes.

The manufacturer has introduced a new, improved bearing that is supposed to be better and last longer.

The TOB on these cars is a bearing that is pushed on by the clutch fork and in turn pushes on the fingers of the pressure plate, allowing it to release pressure on the clutch disk thus disengaging the engine from the transmission.

The TOB on these cars is always rotating anytime the engine is running, however it is just "working" when the clutch is pushed in.

How to "fix" a bad TOB - you fix it by throwing it away. A new TOB only costs about $40 but, it costs several hundreds of dollars (or hours of your time) to get to it to replace it.

I hope this helps your understanding.


humfrz

[incriminati]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Hello again -

If your clutch is "shuddering" there isn't much you can do about it except to open up the clutch assembly and replace parts (like the clutch disk, pressure plate, TOB and replace or resurface the flywheel).

NOTE: There is an outside chance that replacing the clutch hydraulic fluid and bleed the system of air - could smooth out the clutch operation.

As far as operating this transmission, yes, several people find it relatively difficult. Yes, it is rather precise in it's operation and does require additional attention to timing as compared to some other transmissions.

As far as the TOB (throw out bearing or release bearing) in this car, it has been a bad actor, especially with cars over 50,000 some miles. Apparently the grease in the TOB just sort of gives up after several miles and the bearing heats up and crashes.

The manufacturer has introduced a new, improved bearing that is supposed to be better and last longer.

The TOB on these cars is a bearing that is pushed on by the clutch fork and in turn pushes on the fingers of the pressure plate, allowing it to release pressure on the clutch disk thus disengaging the engine from the transmission.

The TOB on these cars is always rotating anytime the engine is running, however it is just "working" when the clutch is pushed in.

How to "fix" a bad TOB - you fix it by throwing it away. A new TOB only costs about $40 but, it costs several hundreds of dollars (or hours of your time) to get to it to replace it.

I hope this helps your understanding.


humfrz

Wow, thank you for the explanation. It does help me understand what is going on. I assume the TOB is not covered by Subaru for replacement if it fails or if it’s found out that your vehicle has the non improved one?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by incriminati

Wow, thank you for the explanation. It does help me understand what is going on. I assume the TOB is not covered by Subaru for replacement if it fails or if it’s found out that your vehicle has the non improved one?

Well, it seems that most of the forum members have discovered that a bad TOB is NOT covered under the drivetrain warranty. Usually it's considered a "wear item".

However, some dealers have been known to replace a bad TOB at their expense - just out of "customer satisfaction".

So - like they said in the old Army "it depends upon the situation".



humfrz

[Tcoat]

The TOB is covered under the base warranty if it is still in effect. They need to actually hear the issue to cover it though they will not just change the bearing. The rest of the clutch is not covered under the TSB nor warranty even if the TOB is the cause of failure. You will have zero doubt if your TOB starts to go since it will sing you the song of it's people. Loudly!
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117440

[incriminati]

I’m beginning to think that it’s not the TOB. Last year after getting my yearly inspection and oil change I was told that the mechanic fixed brakes which were sticking. I didn’t experience the vibration after that for quite some time.

Unfortunately, it has returned. To complicate things, the work done on the brakes was not documented on my service invoice. It was explained in the way that made it seem like it was a minor fix.

I’m about to go in to have the oil changed and I will see if they could do the same thing again to try to remedy the vibration. Here’s hoping that they could find it and fix it since there’s no documentation and it’s not the easiest problem to re-create.

[EndlessAzure]

What RPM are you starting from and how low does it go? Might be engine lug

[DarkPira7e]

How fast are you releasing the clutch after shifting and what rpm is it dropping to as you take off in the next gear? I would try shifting out of first at 3500 or more. I found with my car that if I shift lower than 3500, it engages rough and doesn't drive nicely (from 1st to second only)
It's tough to ride out first since this engine/gear ratio combination is thrashy, but try it