best O2 spacer for ACE 350 header?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

i see a lot of disinformation in this thread, not going to insist cause you can do wha you want, i gave you my opinion

Of course if you see anything you think is wrong I'd like to know about it!

you 'll run leanish , with unefficient cam timing, maf scaling etc etc
it will run closed loop until a certain (VERY VERY UNPRECISE) EGT threshold then it will switch to open loop pretty soon if you track it

You have data logs of this? Just curious... Also if it does go open loop, it still has A/F data, would it not have "learned" to trim richer based on that?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

So much misinformation here it's crazy. Hundreds of people have run headers without a tune here. Should he get a tune before he goes WOT? Of course. But claiming you can't run and drive safely it simply false. The ECU does WAY more closed loop than you think everywhere except for WOT.

I perhaps mistakenly thought '17+ is closed loop even at WOT, all the way to redline. I dyno'd it soon after I got it and both the dyno operator and myself had never seen dead-nuts on A/F, solid flat line just below 13:1, all the way up, identical for 3 pulls.

OP are you planning on tracking it without a tune? If so why? My initial impressions were that you are wondering if you can drive the car around without a tune but not track it.

Was planning to dyno it without a tune and see what power, torque and A/F curves looked like and go from there. Figure results will indicate tune is warranted, but I wanna see what it does without a tune first in any case.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I perhaps mistakenly thought '17+ is closed loop even at WOT, all the way to redline. I dyno'd it soon after I got it and both the dyno operator and myself had never seen dead-nuts on A/F, solid flat line just below 13:1, all the way up, identical for 3 pulls.

For clarification, it definitely does run in open loop at WOT, but there are STFT and AFR corrections that happen real-time.

You can see that in action here: https://datazap.me/u/goingnowherefas...24-25-30-33-34

That is a 3rd gear pull ECUTEK datalog with a 17+ BRZ. As you can see, AF correction is a loggable parameter, but in this case it is doing nothing while STFT increases to ~10% after the initial AFR delta upon tip-in.

[tomm.brz]

yes.
until it triggers the open loop against calculated EGT
and OP wants to track

Do what you want guys, i just gave you what I know will happen in the tune and you just rebut it
if you are convinced it is a good idea , no one is stopping you

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

yes.
until it triggers the open loop against calculated EGT
and OP wants to track

Do what you want guys, i just gave you what I know will happen in the tune and you just rebut it
if you are convinced it is a good idea , no one is stopping you

I'm here to learn. If you have anything more specific, I'm all ears. I.e. if it goes open loop, how much do fuel-trims do to correct?

[norcalpb]

@ZDan why not just buy a used oft for your track day and then sell it for the same price afterwards? The hassle of buying and selling it for $0 is worth it IMO for peace of mind while you are shredding it out there.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

@ZDan why not just buy a used oft for your track day and then sell it for the same price afterwards? The hassle of buying and selling it for $0 is worth it IMO for peace of mind while you are shredding it out there.

It's another related topic, which tuning to go with. An off-the-shelf OFT tune, or an Ecutek tune for ACE350 or customized to my car for 2x the $$$...

Also, not being an expert, but relying on a canned "tune" from a to me unknown source seems like it could be trading one risk for another...

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by ZDan

It's another related topic, which tuning to go with. An off-the-shelf OFT tune, or an Ecutek tune for ACE350 or customized to my car for 2x the $$$...

Also, not being an expert, but relying on a canned "tune" from a to me unknown source seems like it could be trading one risk for another...

You went with an ACE, which is as high as it goes, pretty much don't see the reason to go with OFT. Why not get the best and smoothest tune that's just right for your car. You also track the car, which means proper performance should be important and of value to you. I see you live in RI, not too far from me. Xero-Limit offers a fantastic E-tune with ACE, and priced well.

[PLX92]

Originally Posted by ZDan

It's another related topic, which tuning to go with. An off-the-shelf OFT tune, or an Ecutek tune for ACE350 or customized to my car for 2x the $$$...

Also, not being an expert, but relying on a canned "tune" from a to me unknown source seems like it could be trading one risk for another...

Just here to plug Zach@CSG for a great experience tuning my ace350 setup on ecutek.

[Plumbus]

Originally Posted by PLX92

Just here to plug Zach@CSG for a great experience tuning my ace350 setup on ecutek.

Add me to the plug. Zach helped me tune my brz with ACE headers and answered all questions patiently to make sure I was in the clear. That was in december if memory serves and now a few months later (literally today) I got a Flex Fuel kit from CSG and he is also helping me tune that bae. Car runs like a dream and I expect it to do so after the alcohol kit as well. The Ecutek kit is a dream to work with also.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

You went with an ACE, which is as high as it goes, pretty much don't see the reason to go with OFT. Why not get the best and smoothest tune that's just right for your car. You also track the car, which means proper performance should be important and of value to you. I see you live in RI, not too far from me. Xero-Limit offers a fantastic E-tune with ACE, and priced well.

Thanks for input! Looks like Xero-Limit is a 4 1/2 hr trip for me, tho, not gonna happen before track event...

Not finding any good Ecutek tuners local to Providence RI. EcuTek site lists "RAB Tuning" near Boston and "AMR Performance" in CT, but neither seem to be FT86-centric and have no presence in these forums.

[ZDan]

A little more on where my head is at on this. Bear in mind my only hands-on experience with tuning is swapping carburetor jets and modding mechanical advance curve in a distributor... I went from ~225 to 255rwhp on my 3.1 liter 240Z and spent less than $100 on "tuning"!

For cars like this one and S2000, N.A. and making good power/liter given the rev range, I take claimed performance gains from intake/exhaust mods with a huge grain of salt. If interwebz says header X with a tune will give me 25hp, I'm banking on 15hp, 20hp max, real-world back-to-back same day on same dyno (theoretical dyno tests here, that ain't happenin). Figure if tune is required for half of that gain, so I'm *guessing* maybe +10hp max for the header by itself, optimistically. Naturally, I'm *curious* what kind of power/torque (and A/F!) curves I'll see with just the header, before investing in either an OFT tune or (more likely) fully optimizing with EcuTek tune. Which I'll likely do whatever the header-only dyno results are. But at +10hp (optimistically?) header-only, I have to think fuel trims with the factory ECU are going to keep me in a mostly safeish area, also considering that factory ECU should(?) be pretty proactive with cutting timing with any knock detection. Not stating this as if I already know the answers, anybody feel free to comment if I'm way off base here!

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Thanks for input! Looks like Xero-Limit is a 4 1/2 hr trip for me, tho, not gonna happen before track event...

Not finding any good Ecutek tuners local to Providence RI. EcuTek site lists "RAB Tuning" near Boston and "AMR Performance" in CT, but neither seem to be FT86-centric and have no presence in these forums.

Sorry for my wording, I was not trying to say you should drive there. They do full remote tuning just like Delicious. I just think it's nice to have them somewhat local in case you really need to be there. Mike has owned two BRZ's I believe and has tuned hundreds, if not thousands of these cars since release. He is one of the best tuners on the east coast, hence why I recommended him. Xero-Limit was originally known as Moto East if that rings a bell or you want to look into them more. I got my car dialed in with 2 revisions. You can do as many as you'd like at no additional cost.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by ZDan

A little more on where my head is at on this. Bear in mind my only hands-on experience with tuning is swapping carburetor jets and modding mechanical advance curve in a distributor... I went from ~225 to 255rwhp on my 3.1 liter 240Z and spent less than $100 on "tuning"!

For cars like this one and S2000, N.A. and making good power/liter given the rev range, I take claimed performance gains from intake/exhaust mods with a huge grain of salt. If interwebz says header X with a tune will give me 25hp, I'm banking on 15hp, 20hp max, real-world back-to-back same day on same dyno (theoretical dyno tests here, that ain't happenin). Figure if tune is required for half of that gain, so I'm *guessing* maybe +10hp max for the header by itself, optimistically. Naturally, I'm *curious* what kind of power/torque (and A/F!) curves I'll see with just the header, before investing in either an OFT tune or (more likely) fully optimizing with EcuTek tune. Which I'll likely do whatever the header-only dyno results are. But at +10hp (optimistically?) header-only, I have to think fuel trims with the factory ECU are going to keep me in a mostly safeish area, also considering that factory ECU should(?) be pretty proactive with cutting timing with any knock detection. Not stating this as if I already know the answers, anybody feel free to comment if I'm way off base here!

I would say with owning ACE and everything I have learned from it in reading every forum and subject about it, you likely won't see 10HP from the header itself. I can't relate specifically as I got the tune done pretty much right away, but likely you'll have a little more power mid range and very little up top (4-8HP maybe). ACE350 does not do any wonders at peak HP numbers even after a tune, at least not for the average folk. Its strongest gain comes in mid range. Can't comment much on the fuel trims, but again, I don't exactly see a major point in tracking with the header and no tune. If there is even the SLIGHTEST risk of something going wrong... why take it?

In terms of feel before you get the tune, you probably won't feel much of anything up top, but will feel a bump in mid-range.

EDIT: Here's a random thread to take a quick look at that shows the contrary from the big ACE gains you may have seen. Much like you, I took everything with a grain of salt when I was researching and buying into this. Either way I am not disappointed with my results.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...23#post3201023