Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Backing up a bit to the Camaro comments...Forget the turbo 4, the Camaro V6 weighs 3340 lb and makes 335hp. And starts at $28,000.

Toyota has their work cut out for them, especially since it looks like they half-assed this by letting one of the least reliable German automakers develop the engine for them.

If this car costs $45-50k you'd have to be crazy to pick it over a GT350 IMO. And I'm not a domestic guy at all - have never owned a domestic car.

Completely disagree. That Camaro would still weigh 200lbs more and be a much bigger and less nimble profile for a sports car. Yeah you can put a good suspension and grippy rubber on a lead sled drag car, but that doesn't make it fun to drive or necessarily fastest. The Mustang 350 is even heavier still at 3,800 lbs!! That's a difference of two NFL Offensive Linemen duct taped to your car....

Some of us actually appreciate that the key to a great sports car is less weight, not just adding cheap power.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gymratter

Hey! Don't foul the bench racing with facts.

[unhappymeal]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hey! Don't foul the bench racing with facts.

I would love to see these surveys weighted one of these days by cost of each problem. Does BMW suffer from fewer, yet still catastrophic engineering failures or are they better as a whole?

I know whenever I think of BMW reliability, I am reminded of the nightmare that was the E46 subframe, S-engines and their cooling systems. Hell, they still had huge problems as early as 7 years ago with HPFP failures and the nightmare of an engine on the E60 M5.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by gymratter

Im surprised any luxury brand has good reliability. Everything is done in a more complex way that the failure rate has to be higher: sequential twin turbo engine, cup holders that pop out and fold down, little arm that hands the seatbelt to the passengers, mmi systems with a million variables, buttons for electronics everywhere, sensors to warn you about other sensor fails.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Im surprised any luxury brand has good reliability. Everything is done in a more complex way that the failure rate has to be higher: sequential twin turbo engine, cup holders that pop out and fold down, little arm that hands the seatbelt to the passengers, mmi systems with a million variables, buttons for electronics everywhere, sensors to warn you about other sensor fails.

Fewer compromises in the engineering, better quality materials, tighter quality control throughout the manufacturing process, etc. It isn't a mystery why premium vehicles demand a premium price. Any car can have the same level of reliability as the premium brands but it costs money to get it.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

And I believe most racks are still hydraulic. The motor runs the pump when required rather running all the time off the serpentine belt.

Electric racks have no hydraulic system involved by virtue that there are no fluids in the system to change or leak. For one thing electric racks are much more simple and compact. The downside is that the feel is just not as good as traditional hydraulic racks.

The twin's rack feels really good despite being electric, same with the one in the VW which was at one time adjustable in terms of heaviness via VAGCOM. I've also driven some truly awful ones like in a modern Honda or Lexus of the last decade.

[gymratter]

to all of those that are bring up past BMW models, that is irrelevant. we're talking about modern day cars. not cars from 10+ years ago. the new Supra will most likely be powered by the B58 and share many components with the M240i. and i have only heard good things about both the B58 and M240i.

[vh_supra26]

Thanks to @Guff for finding this.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fflB24o4iVc"]16年振り�スープラ�復活� ジュ�ーブショー�「GR Supra Racing Concept�開発者インタビュー - YouTube[/ame]

Link below for translation.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/toy...ed.768/page-12

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Electric racks have no hydraulic system involved by virtue that there are no fluids in the system to change or leak. For one thing electric racks are much more simple and compact. The downside is that the feel is just not as good as traditional hydraulic racks.

The twin's rack feels really good despite being electric, same with the one in the VW which was at one time adjustable in terms of heaviness via VAGCOM. I've also driven some truly awful ones like in a modern Honda or Lexus of the last decade.

I am suggesting it is not hydraulic versus electric per se; it is their implementation.
The first electric steering on which ever Porsche it was was said to be the fall of civilisation, atrocious, lacking in feel , numb, no feed back, yada yada yada. The current GT3's steering is better than 99.999999999% of cars on the road.
My father's 760 Volvo had hydraulic assist and there was no feedback. The only indication I had about the steering was the vague direction of where the front was going.


If you look up the definition of "barge" it wouldn't surprise me to read "synonym of Volvo 760".

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Fewer compromises in the engineering, better quality materials, tighter quality control throughout the manufacturing process, etc. It isn't a mystery why premium vehicles demand a premium price. Any car can have the same level of reliability as the premium brands but it costs money to get it.

Guess that explains Cadillac, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes, Volvo, Audi being further down the list than Chevrolet and Kia......

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Guess that explains Cadillac, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes, Volvo, Audi being further down the list than Chevrolet and Kia......

Well sometimes the premiums don't do it right and the lesser ones do.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Fewer compromises in the engineering, better quality materials, tighter quality control throughout the manufacturing process, etc. It isn't a mystery why premium vehicles demand a premium price. Any car can have the same level of reliability as the premium brands but it costs money to get it.

I think there is a little bit of "brand snobbery" mob mentality that plays into it as well. The "I've spent all this money so of course I'm going to say it's "reliable".

In addition many owners of these cars don't own them long enough for problems to start popping up, while if you move down the list longer ownership becomes the norm.

Every car I've ever owned would have received the same "dependability" rating from me in the first 100,000 miles.

I also find the disclaimer at the bottom interesting saying this is not based on any statistical significance.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I think there is a little bit of "brand snobbery" mob mentality that plays into it as well. The "I've spent all this money so of course I'm going to say it's "reliable".

In addition many owners of these cars don't own them long enough for problems to start popping up, while if you move down the list longer ownership becomes the norm.

Every car I've ever owned would have received the same "dependability" rating from me in the first 100,000 miles.

I also find the disclaimer at the bottom interesting saying this is not based on any statistical significance.

All that doesn't even touch the indiscriminate use of the word "reliable" either. The twins initially had a horrible reliability rating because of the crickets and condensation in the tail lights. I personally do not see how either of these effects how reliable the car is. The people buying Kias may overlook some little things since "hey I bought a Kia" whereas a person with a Landover that has a 1/2 inch of crooked stitching in the trunk matting may scream bloody blue murder. The "reliability" stats are questionable at best since it isn't a level playing field at the best of times.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Electric racks have no hydraulic system involved by virtue that there are no fluids in the system to change or leak. For one thing electric racks are much more simple and compact. The downside is that the feel is just not as good as traditional hydraulic racks.

The twin's rack feels really good despite being electric, same with the one in the VW which was at one time adjustable in terms of heaviness via VAGCOM. I've also driven some truly awful ones like in a modern Honda or Lexus of the last decade.

That may be true for some, but the, "Electric" power steering on the 2010+ Mazdaspeed 3 utilizes a hydraulic rack, and an electric motor to spin the pump on demand.