Engine Rod #3 Bent 2013 Scion FRS

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

This seems to be going full circle with no real change from the original post.

Have you considered that with 19K in financing owed, you ought to consider some other options? Get an independent mechanic to install a low-mile wrecker engine from an FR-S or BRZ?

How about investing $200 in consulting a lawyer?

You're already so upside-down in this thing, you might as well get it fixed and drive it for as long as it will last.

He is trying to get it fixed. The warranty (either) should be taking care of this, if it is as clear as his first post makes it out to be.

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

This seems to be going full circle with no real change from the original post.

Have you considered that with 19K in financing owed, you ought to consider some other options? Get an independent mechanic to install a low-mile wrecker engine from an FR-S or BRZ?

How about investing $200 in consulting a lawyer?

You're already so upside-down in this thing, you might as well get it fixed and drive it for as long as it will last.

Yeah, I spoke to a lawyer and he's willing to help (it's one that's free and only gets paid if we win the case, Toyota wohld pay all of the fees) but he advised me to try to get it resolved between me and Toyota first. Reason being that if he steps in, a lawsuit would take months and he would prefer me having it fixed sooner to actually benefit be right now.

If Toyota isn't budging, then I will contact the lawyer again and go through with the lawsuit.

Also, reason I don't want to get it done through someone outside the dealership is that then I'd probably lose Powertrain warranty for good and I really believe I shouldn't have to pay for this.

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by justatroll

If an injector fails stuck open while the engine is not turning (like during the 'leak test' mentioned above), then the cylinder could fill enough with fuel to hydrolock the next time that it gets cranked.

Since he drove it home & turned it off, then heard the noise the next time he cranked it, it could have been full of fuel before he cranked it to start.

A cylinder that flooded wouldnt fire even if the plug and coil were working perfectly.

Yeah that's what I was thinking but I'm mot very knowledgeable with engines, just thought it was a possibility after people telling me it could happen.

It would be too much of a coincidence that Fuel Injector #3 had an issue and then right after Engine Rod #3 got bent and they weren't correlated. I believe there is some correlation between the 2.

[justatroll]

Your Timeline:
1 - "I went to start the car, it wouldn't start." (around noon?)
what did it do? did it crank and crank an crank and never 'catch' and fire up? did it crank one turn then stop abruptly? did it fire and try to start and stumble? etc.

2 - "I waited an hour and it started." (about 1PM?)
did it start right away or did you have to crank it longer than usual?
"But this time it was idling really bad, smelled like fuel, and was shaking because of the bad idling."

I believe by this time you had already bent the rod.

3 - "It also threw out a CEL code was P0203 Injector Circuit/Open (Cylinder 3)."

4 - "That night it started up perfectly fine this time." (8PM?)
" No idle issues. BUT there was a LOUD engine knocking."

the youtube video above was your very first attempt to start it after the attempt at 1PM where it started but ran like crap?

I think you have it right.
You parked the car in the morning running fine.
I believe this is when the DI injector failed open (valve stuck open) and some amount of fuel filled the cylinder

You tried to start it at noon and it woudlnt
I bet this is when the rod bent but the cylinder was still too flooded for the engine to turn over

An hour later it did start, but ran like crap
So the fuel had time to vent now that the engine turned far enough to open a valve during the rod bending event
It started but was running with a partially bent rod.

That evening you took the video and now the rod is clearly bent.

So the tech is full of shit, it is perfectly plausible.
Now how much fuel could leak into the cylinder assuming it is a credible failure mode of the valve mechanically sticking open?
Considering that when you shut off the car, the fuel pressure rail is probably above 1500 PSI, a leak could result in quite a bit of fuel.

Then if there is such a thing as an automatic "fuel pressure test" of some sort, that could dump even more fuel into the cylinder if the injector is the leak.
However the tank Fuel Pump would not get the DI fuel rail back above 1500 PSI by itself.

[guybo]

Gasoline can't cause a bent rod. It is a compressible liquid.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by guybo

Gasoline can't cause a bent rod. It is a compressible liquid.

What are you smoking?
It certainly CAN cause hydrolock as gasoline the liquid is not compressible.
Just like water, gasoline can exist in more than one phase (liquid and gas).

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by guybo

Gasoline can't cause a bent rod. It is a compressible liquid.

Wow. Someone didn't skip straight to Physics 7, that much is certain.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Considering that when you shut off the car, the fuel pressure rail is probably above 1500 PSI, a leak could result in quite a bit of fuel.

Then if there is such a thing as an automatic "fuel pressure test" of some sort, that could dump even more fuel into the cylinder if the injector is the leak.
However the tank Fuel Pump would not get the DI fuel rail back above 1500 PSI by itself.

But is there enough fuel in the rail to flood the cylinder enough to hydrolock? Without the HPFP operating it isn't like the fuel in the rail would be replaced or maintain high pressure through an open injector for long.

The theory is sound except for those couple of points that keep nagging at me.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

But is there enough fuel in the rail to flood the cylinder enough to hydrolock? Without the HPFP operating it isn't like the fuel in the rail would be replaced or maintain high pressure through an open injector for long.

The theory is sound except for those couple of points that keep nagging at me.

All you need is about 40cc of fluid to fill the combustion chamber.

http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/tomei-...a20-flat-four/

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by guybo

Gasoline can't cause a bent rod. It is a compressible liquid.

....wow. Just. Wow.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by guybo

Gasoline can't cause a bent rod. It is a compressible liquid.

I reckon you're just ah messen wich our minds, there @guybo ......

Yes, all liquids are compressible to a degree ..... however, the change in density of liquid gasoline with pressure, is so small it's negligible.

WIKI learnt me that ..........


humfrz

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Your Timeline:
1 - "I went to start the car, it wouldn't start." (around noon?)
what did it do? did it crank and crank an crank and never 'catch' and fire up? did it crank one turn then stop abruptly? did it fire and try to start and stumble? etc.

It would just crank and crank. Tried starting it about 3 times and it would just crank and crank every time.

Originally Posted by justatroll

2 - "I waited an hour and it started." (about 1PM?)
did it start right away or did you have to crank it longer than usual?
"But this time it was idling really bad, smelled like fuel, and was shaking because of the bad idling."

I believe by this time you had already bent the rod.

I had to crank it longer than usual, but it finally started.

Originally Posted by justatroll

3 - "It also threw out a CEL code was P0203 Injector Circuit/Open (Cylinder 3)."

4 - "That night it started up perfectly fine this time." (8PM?)
" No idle issues. BUT there was a LOUD engine knocking."

the youtube video above was your very first attempt to start it after the attempt at 1PM where it started but ran like crap?

Yeah, that was the very first attempt after the time it ran like crap.

Originally Posted by justatroll

I think you have it right.
You parked the car in the morning running fine.
I believe this is when the DI injector failed open (valve stuck open) and some amount of fuel filled the cylinder

You tried to start it at noon and it woudlnt
I bet this is when the rod bent but the cylinder was still too flooded for the engine to turn over

An hour later it did start, but ran like crap
So the fuel had time to vent now that the engine turned far enough to open a valve during the rod bending event
It started but was running with a partially bent rod.

That evening you took the video and now the rod is clearly bent.

So the tech is full of shit, it is perfectly plausible.
Now how much fuel could leak into the cylinder assuming it is a credible failure mode of the valve mechanically sticking open?
Considering that when you shut off the car, the fuel pressure rail is probably above 1500 PSI, a leak could result in quite a bit of fuel.

Then if there is such a thing as an automatic "fuel pressure test" of some sort, that could dump even more fuel into the cylinder if the injector is the leak.
However the tank Fuel Pump would not get the DI fuel rail back above 1500 PSI by itself.

Yeah, that's the only thing that makes sense to me right now, since there was no coolant in the engine to cause the hydrolock, so what else could it have been? I think only fuel in this case would have caused it.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Brandond15

...............
Yeah, that's the only thing that makes sense to me right now, since there was no coolant in the engine to cause the hydrolock, so what else could it have been? I think only fuel in this case would have caused it.

I'm still wondering where the coolant went and when (on the timeline) did it escape .......??




humfrz

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I'm still wondering where the coolant went and when (on the timeline) did it escape .......??




humfrz

Yeah I wonder the same thing. Technician said that there are no leaks and he has no clue where the coolant went.