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Old 11-02-2022, 11:17 PM   #617
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To be fair man made climate change is yet another religion with no more basis in science and even less basis in fact. So, the mixing of the faiths in the overall discussion seem appropriate at this point.
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Old 11-02-2022, 11:34 PM   #618
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Electric cars will probably be cheaper and lighter than ICE vehicles eventually. That is what is most likely based on the current trends in battery technology. Electric motors are incredibly small and powerful and don't need to be Telsa fast. The batteries only need to be big enough from A to B and not big enough to travel across all of California, so battery size will likely shrink with increasing density and with battery swapping. Batteries are already invented the supersede lithium ion and that are also much cheaper, so really, it is going to be a win-win with EVs being cheaper and lighter than ICEs.

Remember when solar panels and 60'' big screen TVs were so expensive? Just wait and see when battery tech and the industry explodes. Prices for cars will plummet.


In both of those cases the vast majority of the decrease in cost was in the first 10 years. We are >10 years into the EV thing.

Saying something can be done, and actually doing it at scale are vastly different things. My entire career exists in that gap lol.
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Old 11-02-2022, 11:41 PM   #619
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To be fair man made climate change is yet another religion with no more basis in science and even less basis in fact. So, the mixing of the faiths in the overall discussion seem appropriate at this point.
lol, this thread would be a lot better if you had to have a higher than room temperature IQ to post in it
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Old 11-03-2022, 12:17 AM   #620
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lol, this thread would be a lot better if you had to have a higher than room temperature IQ to post in it
We wouldn’t get to hear from you then would we?
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Old 11-03-2022, 12:55 AM   #621
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In both of those cases the vast majority of the decrease in cost was in the first 10 years. We are >10 years into the EV thing.

Saying something can be done, and actually doing it at scale are vastly different things. My entire career exists in that gap lol.
That is kind of how exponential graphs work, except those graphs don't show the full history. The first available solar panels cost $300/watt in 1956, and the first flat LCD screen was $15k in 1997, and that is not with inflation, so not really. The price of batteries has gone down by a factor of ten, so if it does that in another ten years then it would be $13/kWh and then in another ten years the batteries could be $1.30/kWh, but I doubt it'll follow that price curve. Price is one factor and the other is value. If the EV can last longer with better reliability than an ICE then that would be another thing that reduces price of ownership over time.

https://www.solaris-shop.com/history-of-solar-energy/

https://zipitclean.com/inventions-in...n-tv-invented/




Read up. Lithium-sulfur is probably the next thing, and then I could see sodium-sulfur "low grade" batteries being another option.

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Another important aspect is of course price, and Theion is promising amazing reductions here too. “Our price target is €30 per kilowatt hour in comparison to €90 per kilowatt hour today,” says Ehmes. This is because the materials Theion uses are cheaper, and so is the energy consumption. “Production energy is 90% less.” With batteries making up around a third of current EV costs, this reduction would easily push total car prices well below that of internal combustion vehicles. That current 225kWh pack for 900 miles would potentially be the same sort of price as a 75kWh one for 300 miles is today.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...h=6e37cc097eed
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Old 11-03-2022, 01:27 AM   #622
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To be fair man made climate change is yet another religion with no more basis in science and even less basis in fact. So, the mixing of the faiths in the overall discussion seem appropriate at this point.
Less basis in fact than a hippie "walking" on water and doing party tricks to turn water into wine? No more basis in science...how is theology have any base in science? I think you liked the sound of what you said more than you realized what you were saying.

What you said, everyone at one point said about germ theory, evolutionary theory, cell theory, big bang theory, theory of relativity, etc. Anthropomorphic climate change is supported through multiple scientific disciplines and by the vast majority of climate scientists. Calling it a religion is like calling belief in the germ theory or in the theory of plate tectonics a religion. Religions exist in the absence of evidence and dogmatically hold onto their position irregardless of new evidence. On the germ theory side, the religious perspective is actually the antivaxxers and their autism-vaccine pseudoscience beliefs. What you said is like me debating an antivaxxer, and you saying, "To be fair the germ theory is yet another religion with no more basis in science and even less basis in fact. So, the mixing of the faiths in the overall discussion seem appropriate at this point." I hope you see how ridiculous that statement sounds when rephrased with another, different, well-support, scientific theory, but maybe you are an antivaxxer, so maybe I'm just "speaking" to a brick wall here.

We have gone over the evidence ad nauseam for each person who claimed to know more than the climate scientists, but if you feel like getting an education on the subject, just read through the thread. There is a lot of data here.
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Old 11-03-2022, 05:58 PM   #623
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@Dadhawk

You might like this one. The short of it is they are coupling a higher temperature nuclear reactor with hydrogen production to control/use the high heat of the reactor by using it for hydrogen production, which requires higher heat than standard nuclear reactors, all making for a very green system. Hydrogen from a source as green as nuclear might make FCEVs competitive to BEVs for end-of-life carbon emissions, even if BEVs turn to lithium-sulfur and/or sodium/sulfur batteries, lowering their green footprint initially and over the life of the car, as they would have a longer battery life. Converting the infrastructure would take a little more time, and I don't know if they have to create desalination plants or are taking fresh water, but this could give planes, towing trucks, interstate trucks, distance travelers and anyone not living at a residence with a plug for their car to have an alternative vehicle.






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Old 11-03-2022, 07:20 PM   #624
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Old 11-06-2022, 03:29 AM   #625
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Less basis in fact than a hippie "walking" on water and doing party tricks to turn water into wine? No more basis in science...how is theology have any base in science? I think you liked the sound of what you said more than you realized what you were saying.

What you said, everyone at one point said about germ theory, evolutionary theory, cell theory, big bang theory, theory of relativity, etc. Anthropomorphic climate change is supported through multiple scientific disciplines and by the vast majority of climate scientists. Calling it a religion is like calling belief in the germ theory or in the theory of plate tectonics a religion. Religions exist in the absence of evidence and dogmatically hold onto their position irregardless of new evidence. On the germ theory side, the religious perspective is actually the antivaxxers and their autism-vaccine pseudoscience beliefs. What you said is like me debating an antivaxxer, and you saying, "To be fair the germ theory is yet another religion with no more basis in science and even less basis in fact. So, the mixing of the faiths in the overall discussion seem appropriate at this point." I hope you see how ridiculous that statement sounds when rephrased with another, different, well-support, scientific theory, but maybe you are an antivaxxer, so maybe I'm just "speaking" to a brick wall here.

We have gone over the evidence ad nauseam for each person who claimed to know more than the climate scientists, but if you feel like getting an education on the subject, just read through the thread. There is a lot of data here.
Yes, we’ve been over this. The data is often redacted, corrected, and manipulated. The data for naturally occurring is reasonably solid, at least in the 30 or so years I’ve been following the subject. Most of what you’re presenting is pretty graphs to show farcical assertions to make a point where one wants there to be one.
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Old 11-06-2022, 08:31 AM   #626
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Yes, we’ve been over this. The data is often redacted, corrected, and manipulated. The data for naturally occurring is reasonably solid, at least in the 30 or so years I’ve been following the subject. Most of what you’re presenting is pretty graphs to show farcical assertions to make a point where one wants there to be one.
in other words, he's definitely californian.
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Old 11-06-2022, 11:06 AM   #627
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Yes, we’ve been over this. The data is often redacted, corrected, and manipulated. The data for naturally occurring is reasonably solid, at least in the 30 or so years I’ve been following the subject. Most of what you’re presenting is pretty graphs to show farcical assertions to make a point where one wants there to be one.
Please present this data?
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Old 11-06-2022, 11:26 AM   #628
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Yes, we’ve been over this. The data is often redacted, corrected, and manipulated. The data for naturally occurring is reasonably solid, at least in the 30 or so years I’ve been following the subject. Most of what you’re presenting is pretty graphs to show farcical assertions to make a point where one wants there to be one.
That is the claim, but it was shown to be false. I’m presenting what scientists are presenting. The scientific consensus in the literature and what’s being presented to world leaders at these international conventions is ubiquitous.

Again, there are people arguing the world is flat and who say there are conspiracies to hide what they believe is the obviousness that the world is flat. They also say the same things you just said. They present counter arguments. How do you say scientists are correct about the world being a globe or about the germ theory or about evolution, but that they are wrong about anthropogenic climate change? I’m assuming you except those other theories. Are you applying greater skepticism to this one issue or what convinces you of one thing and not another? If I said 2% of scientific papers show no link between smoking a lung disease then would you believe the 2%? I can’t tell what criteria people are using to believe one thing and deny another thing because it doesn’t seem consistent at all.

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/20...s-not-natural/


Here is a review article discussing the 3% of papers that don’t show anthropogenic climate change, which suggests the number is actually 100%, and there is a news article discussing the same study in a more palatable way.

Learning from mistakes in climate research

https://link.springer.com/article/10...704-015-1597-5

https://qz.com/1069298/the-3-of-scie...re-all-flawed/
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Old 11-06-2022, 11:45 AM   #629
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in other words, he's definitely californian.
Seems like this is more than a California perspective:

30% Of Americans Cite Climate Change As A Motivator To Move In 2022

https://www.forbes.com/home-improvem...limate-change/

Nearly three quarters of Americans believe humans can reduce climate change but aren’t willing to change their behaviors

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-pol...ther-poll-2022

Quote:
Over half (57%) of Americans believe climate change is mostly caused by human activity, a 6-percentage point increase from the number of Americans saying the same in 2017 and 2018. However, while the majority of Americans believe climate change is caused by human activity, over a quarter (27%) believe it is mostly caused by natural patterns, and 6% believe it is not happening at all. Nearly half of Republicans believe climate change is caused by natural patterns (46%) compared to just 12% of Democrats.
For Earth Day, key facts about Americans’ views of climate change and renewable energy

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ewable-energy/

Quote:
Three-quarters of Americans say that human activity, such as the burning of fossil fuels, contributes to climate change at least some, with 46% saying it contributes a great deal
Climate Change Remains Top Global Threat Across 19-Country Survey

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...ountry-survey/

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Three-in-four across 19 countries view global climate change as a major threat to their country
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Old 11-07-2022, 03:16 AM   #630
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Again, there are people arguing the world is flat
I had a quick look at The Flat Earth Society website. There is a lot of information there but I got bored very quickly due to reading some of the "proofs" posited.

A couple of things (which I think I've already stated here) come to mind when looking at such websites.
Firstly, it is a closed club; you are either a member of the club or you are not. Which is true for all conspiracy clubs.

Secondly, and this quote is from a link you posted above (Learning from mistakes in climate research), "We also argue that science is never settled and that both mainstream and contrarian papers must be subject to sustained scrutiny".
The conspiracy clubs will not take on new information/evidence.
"Look, here is some evidence pointing towards the earth being spherical".
"No, that is fabricated data, the earth is flat."
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