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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 11-04-2022, 03:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The bolt pattern is the same on both gen cars, but the design is somewhat different. The 'tub' part of the oil pan is different with some other subtle tweaks. These are not drastic changes. If I showed you each pan a week apart, you likely wouldn't see a difference big enough to note. Close inspection side-by-side and you will see the changes.

I'd bet a $20 that the FA24 pan will fit all FA20 cars, but I'd only bet $1 that the 1st FA20 pan design might fit an FA24. The FA24 exhaust manifold is closer to the oil pan than the FA20. Not sure if any of these matters for what you're doing, but there it is.
If the manifold is nowhere near the edges of the pan, we'll be in good shape. As long as the flange of the pan has not changed, we'll also be in good shape and I can continue solving both generation sealing issues with this one project.

Here's what I have determined to be the fault of the OEM design for this pan and its mating surface (the underside of the upper oil pan assembly):

The pan flange is designed simply to hold the lower pan in place to the upper pan while the sealant cures within the channel. It was not designed to squeeze a gasket and hold it in place to form a seal. Once the sealant cures, the two mating surfaces are basically "glued" together. This makes it so important for anyone performing a removal and re-installation of the pan, that in addition to bending the flimsy metal of the flange back into as close to a flat shape as possible, that they also must THOROUGHLY clean both surfaces completely, by removing ALL of the old sealant, as well as any oil or grease residue from within that sealing channel along the circumference of the upper pan, and the mating surface of the lower pan. This can be almost impossible to do (unless the engine is upside down on a stand) when you are constantly being plagued by drips of oil from the block.

If you have plenty of time, as in the case of the home mechanic, you can wait several hours for the drips to stop to begin the cleaning and resealing process, but do you really think that a dealer or independent technician has the time to do this? I don't think so. Subaru designed these engines so that they can be assembled in the cheapest and quickest way possible...for robots to do the work that human assemblers once did. Subaru DIDN'T design them to be worked on, disassembled and reassembled by human beings. They have basically engineered a "throw away" engine design.

[Rant]: You used to be able to buy a fractional H.P. electric motor in the United States that was actually made in the U.S. before all of the motor manufacturing companies decided to sell out to Chinese and Mexican companies. Ones that you could actually rebuild with new parts when they failed (the parts were also manufactured in the U.S.). They lasted longer because they were designed to. The quality control was much better. Now you buy a small motor off the shelf and they're ALL built somewhere else OTHER THAN the U.S. and they just don't last very long because of cheaper materials and insufficient (or a complete lack of) quality control. They are also built using cheap labor, which adds to the problem. "Minimum wage means minimum effort!" is a term I like to use when describing this problem. Anyways, NOBODY rebuilds small electric motors anymore when you can just buy a new one...and a second new one....then a third new one....then a fourth new one....and on and on whenever they fail. Designed Obsolescence is another term I like to use, and it's an idea that fills our landfills with extra waste that we have to deal with.
[Sorry, rant over.]

Anyways, this OEM engine sealing design with a lack of gaskets makes it more difficult and time consuming for the regular Joe, let alone the enthusiast to work on these cars. You may as well buy a new or used engine when yours fails just due the cost of labor to fix it. A well-designed alternative needs to be available for at least the racing scene, if not, for anyone else who works on these cars. I will do my best to take this one project on to solve this one issue. I don't let people who say "No, it can't be done." to me have the final word. I could point out my ECU flashing and tuning experience as an example, or even the Harman Kardon head unit issue that I was able to solve, but I'll leave it at that. I have faith that my simple idea will work. If it helps just one person, it will make a difference.

I'll be back around in about a week when my new oil pan arrives. Also, Fel-Pro apparently already makes an oil pan gasket for these engines, P/N OS3087 which I am trying to obtain one to use in helping creating a different one for this application design improvement. I am assuming their design doesn't take into consideration the flimsiness of the OEM pan flange and would leak when torquing the bolts to specifications, which is why I seem to have trouble locating one.
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Old 11-06-2022, 10:03 AM   #30
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It might be more trouble than it's worth, but someone could weld in a 1/8" high sheet metal wall (or fence) around the inside of the pan where it meets the upper pan. This could prevent sealant from pushing into the crankcase galley.
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Old 11-06-2022, 09:48 PM   #31
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Interested in the original idea, pardon if I am off my rocker... but are the images broken in the original post? Personally have no need for the extra ports, as I have my oil temp into the block and no plans for boost :P. At a $149 price point consider me locked, would love to be able to just dump in a 5+1 oil change into the engine
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Old 11-07-2022, 04:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by villainous_frx View Post
Interested in the original idea, pardon if I am off my rocker... but are the images broken in the original post? Personally have no need for the extra ports, as I have my oil temp into the block and no plans for boost :P. At a $149 price point consider me locked, would love to be able to just dump in a 5+1 oil change into the engine
I think you are in the majority, so we'll include plugs for those ports.
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Old 11-07-2022, 05:22 PM   #33
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but are the images broken in the original post?
I think it's because the images are hosted on sharepoint.com and it requires some kind of third party cookie be set before you see them.

I have trouble seeing most of killerb's images as well. I got it working once, but they are broken again.

Edit - yeah - whitelisted ft86club.com to allow 3rd party cookies and it seems to work again.

Last edited by 86league; 11-07-2022 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 11-07-2022, 07:09 PM   #34
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The spacer is a neat idea, I'd be on board for 1st gen.
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