follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #1
mechaghost
Senior Member
 
mechaghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: Silver AT Limited
Location: Seattle
Posts: 823
Thanks: 145
Thanked 343 Times in 158 Posts
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Drift Office Tune vs Visconti Tune

Introduction

So Bob over at Drift Office LLC and me decided to compare Visconti Tune, FA20Club Tune (was not able to load the tune because I did not get the most up to date tune, and the older tune was not loadable through the newer ecutek software), and the Drift Office tune for the Automatic BRZ. The AT tune from Drift Office is based on @brzranger 's tuned AT.

Setup

So here are the variables we tried to keep consistent across the two tunes

1. Each run was from a fresh flash, meaning the ECU was not given the chance to learn the new tune. So when I came in I reflashed the Visconti tune to keep it fair. Also given the time frame it was not reasonable to try and have the ecu learn after every flash.

2. We let the car idle for a few minutes after a new flash to let it adjust the cam timing.

3. A fan was blowing at the engine bay with the hood up.

4. My mods that can affect the dyno results are:
- Airraid Intake
- Motegi M125 wheels
- Works resonated AxleBack

5. Each pull was done at 4th gear, 3 times with the best runs compared


Results:

From a dyno standpoint I think Visconti and Drift Office Tune are neck to neck with the Drift Office tune slightly ahead. However these variances are negligible to daily driving and the occasional autoX and track days.

I decided to go with the Drift Office tune because it is a smoother curve from the dyno sheet.

Notes:

At the first few runs my AFR was not smooth and out of whack, which did not make sense since we did a shootout last year and my AFR was fine with the earlier tunes from FA20 and Visconti as well as having the Airraid intake. Upon further inspection it was because my exhaust was not equally flowing, the passenger side of my exhaust had more air flow than the driver side (to which I dunno why, maybe bad design?) We checked the AFR from ecutek and the numbers were what we expected coming from the ECU. The AFR you see is from the passenger side exhaust readings.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by mechaghost; 01-29-2013 at 11:44 PM.
mechaghost is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mechaghost For This Useful Post:
BRZranger (01-27-2013), Drift-Office (01-26-2013), MarkRacerX (01-30-2013), Mr.Jay (01-29-2013), Sportsguy83 (01-26-2013)
Old 01-27-2013, 09:35 AM   #2
acro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: GT-86
Location: Northern hemisphere
Posts: 360
Thanks: 419
Thanked 102 Times in 69 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Honestly not seeing any significant difference here in regards to power and the AFR for visconti's tune seems slightly better on the high end
acro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #3
mechaghost
Senior Member
 
mechaghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: Silver AT Limited
Location: Seattle
Posts: 823
Thanks: 145
Thanked 343 Times in 158 Posts
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acro View Post
Honestly not seeing any significant difference here in regards to power and the AFR for visconti's tune seems slightly better on the high end
I'm a little bit confused by your statement. The graph shows the very slight advantage to Drift Office. I wouldn't trust those AFR's due to my exhaust (which is throwing off the sensor)
mechaghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 01:57 PM   #4
Xdragonxb0i
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: ex500r
Location: AR
Posts: 859
Thanks: 13
Thanked 105 Times in 77 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechaghost View Post
I'm a little bit confused by your statement. The graph shows the very slight advantage to Drift Office. I wouldn't trust those AFR's due to my exhaust (which is throwing off the sensor)
Are you gonna update with fa20 tune?
Xdragonxb0i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:51 PM   #5
acro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: GT-86
Location: Northern hemisphere
Posts: 360
Thanks: 419
Thanked 102 Times in 69 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechaghost View Post
I'm a little bit confused by your statement. The graph shows the very slight advantage to Drift Office. I wouldn't trust those AFR's due to my exhaust (which is throwing off the sensor)
Well not sure how to be clearer peak horsepower is < 1 which is not significantly greater (definately cannot be felt) and may not even be statistically significant.In addition the curves are almost in line with each other for the most part. I would say they are equal in regards to power generated.

The differences between the two graphs may be within the margin of error for the dyno.

What i do see is the Drift Office AFR curve dipping below 12 above 6000 rpm. which may be a bit to lean for the car. If you dont trust your AFR however (not sure y?) then u can ignore the AFR's. The difference between the AFR curves however is more significantly different than the torque and power graphs IMHO
acro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:58 PM   #6
so26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: Raven FR-S 6MT
Location: Garden state
Posts: 181
Thanks: 70
Thanked 54 Times in 22 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Would have been nice to have seen stock tune on graph as well. Waiting to see where the Drift Office tune comes in $$$ wise.
so26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 03:34 PM   #7
2forme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited
Location: MA
Posts: 2,974
Thanks: 972
Thanked 1,552 Times in 843 Posts
Mentioned: 164 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by acro View Post
The differences between the two graphs may be within the margin of error for the dyno.

What i do see is the Drift Office AFR curve dipping below 12 above 6000 rpm. which may be a bit to lean for the car. If you dont trust your AFR however (not sure y?) then u can ignore the AFR's. The difference between the AFR curves however is more significantly different than the torque and power graphs IMHO
This x10. I've seen same tune, same car, same dyno vary by more power than the difference here. So these tunes can be considered identical, power wise.

Now, the AFR curve shows drift office being richer than 12 at high RPMS. It appears that Visconti's AFR curve is a tad flatter and more consistent throughout the entire RPM curve.

Also, that dip you notice at high RPMs on the drift office dyno is a bit concerning. Either you let off the gas or the ECU pulled timing from knock...
2forme is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 2forme For This Useful Post:
Calum (01-27-2013)
Old 01-27-2013, 06:55 PM   #8
Sportsguy83
I Love custom Turbo kits
 
Sportsguy83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: Limited BRZ
Location: Miami
Posts: 10,770
Thanks: 20,004
Thanked 8,340 Times in 4,361 Posts
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 12 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by acro View Post

What i do see is the Drift Office AFR curve dipping below 12 above 6000 rpm. which may be a bit to lean for the car. If you dont trust your AFR however (not sure y?) then u can ignore the AFR's. The difference between the AFR curves however is more significantly different than the torque and power graphs IMHO
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFR is Air/Fuel. The HIGHER the number, the LEANER the mix (there is more air per fuel). the LOWER the number, The RICHER the mix (there is less air per fuel)... Right? If so, dipping below 12 means its richer, not leaner.
Sportsguy83 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sportsguy83 For This Useful Post:
Drift-Office (01-27-2013)
Old 01-27-2013, 07:07 PM   #9
Drift-Office
Senior Member
 
Drift-Office's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: AE86 / FRS / FC3S / GC8 / S14 / R32
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 789
Thanks: 633
Thanked 1,431 Times in 372 Posts
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acro View Post
What i do see is the Drift Office AFR curve dipping below 12 above 6000 rpm. which may be a bit to lean for the car. If you dont trust your AFR however (not sure y?) then u can ignore the AFR's. The difference between the AFR curves however is more significantly different than the torque and power graphs IMHO

Sounds like your confused.

In any which case, this was supposed to be a fun 3 way 'shootout' but it turns out that FA20 club elected not to send the OP an updated calibration, why I'm not sure...

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC
Drift-Office is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Drift-Office For This Useful Post:
2forme (01-27-2013), acro (01-27-2013), Sportsguy83 (01-27-2013)
Old 01-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #10
acro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: GT-86
Location: Northern hemisphere
Posts: 360
Thanks: 419
Thanked 102 Times in 69 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drift-Office View Post
Sounds like your confused.

In any which case, this was supposed to be a fun 3 way 'shootout' but it turns out that FA20 club elected not to send the OP an updated calibration, why I'm not sure...

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC
Alas yes it was an error on my part. Lol
My apologies

But still I think u will agree the two tunes make basically the same power.
acro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 07:30 PM   #11
Drift-Office
Senior Member
 
Drift-Office's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: AE86 / FRS / FC3S / GC8 / S14 / R32
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 789
Thanks: 633
Thanked 1,431 Times in 372 Posts
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acro View Post
But still I think u will agree the two tunes make basically the same power.
Sure, based on those two charts, that's pretty apparent.

Now that the OP has installed his stock intake back on, we'll see if we can't get FA20 club to send him an updated tune as well and then we'll shoot for yet another apples - to - apples comparison in the near future.

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC
Drift-Office is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 07:49 PM   #12
Foobar
SLO NO MO
 
Foobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: '19 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 2,961
Thanks: 224
Thanked 1,062 Times in 738 Posts
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drift-Office View Post
In any which case, this was supposed to be a fun 3 way 'shootout' but it turns out that FA20 club elected not to send the OP an updated calibration, why I'm not sure...]
That's surprising, given the rave reviews of how fast FA20club responds to customer requests for tunes.
Foobar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 04:42 PM   #13
Drift-Office
Senior Member
 
Drift-Office's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: AE86 / FRS / FC3S / GC8 / S14 / R32
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 789
Thanks: 633
Thanked 1,431 Times in 372 Posts
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foobar View Post
That's surprising, given the rave reviews of how fast FA20club responds to customer requests for tunes.
That's what I thought too...
Drift-Office is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2013, 06:29 PM   #14
white devil
Go Gators!
 
white devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: FRS White-out
Location: Gainesville, Fl
Posts: 393
Thanks: 245
Thanked 111 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
FA20 has been dealing with sick kids......FYI....I'm sure he'll get it to ya as soon as he can
__________________
"What do you mean I voided my warranty??"
FA20 Turbo + HRI Tune + FA20 Flex fuel + FA20club intake + SRT headerback exhaust + FA20 headers + KW3's + Hotchkis front and rear sway bars + Cusco strut tower bar + Perrin oil cooler + Perrin pulley & brake stop thingy + GFB water & alternator pulleys + Crawford air/oil separator
white devil is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Drift-Office Stage 1, 92 Oct tune BRZranger Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 15 01-07-2013 09:40 PM
Heading to NC - Come get your EcuTek tune from Visconti ! Visconti Southeast 16 09-18-2012 08:15 AM
CEL with Visconti tune tjdiz92 Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 44 09-16-2012 04:04 AM
A Question for Those of You WITH the Visconti Tune White64Goat Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 22 09-02-2012 05:27 PM
1st Auto with Visconti E85 tune! white devil Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 35 08-22-2012 04:22 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.