Next Gen BRZ/86!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by krayzie

@nikitopo

Okay I finally found the diagram which I saw many years ago on the web:



Well you can call it progress in terms of a supposedly cost savings exercise, but not progress in the traditional sense (I mean come'on let's face it; the dude at Das Auto who actually came up with this got canned soon after it was implemented lmao).

This demonstrates where people are getting all bent outta shape on the use of the term "platform". They are still envisioning it as the literal use of a base that only certain bodies can go on and can only use the same type of drivetrain. The new Subaru global "platform" is much more like the VW Toolkit set up than the first "platform" shown in the picture. They just continue to use the same term even though the application is radically different. The manufacturing benefits to this method are massive.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This demonstrates where people are getting all bent outta shape on the use of the term "platform". They are still envisioning it as the literal use of a base that only certain bodies can go on and can only use the same type of drivetrain. The new Subaru global "platform" is much more like the VW Toolkit set up than the first "platform" shown in the picture. They just continue to use the same term even though the application is radically different. The manufacturing benefits to this method are massive.

Subaru has pictures of the "platform", and it sure doesn't look like the toolkit approach. 4 wheel drive is built into the platform and is not an option. That alone makes it inappropriate for the Twins. My guess is that they will keep the current Twins platform and work on making it look more modern and be an inch or two lower. That is the only plan that makes any sense for a low production vehicle selling at a reasonable price. They will also probably use lighter weight materials. Their only real competition in the states is the MX-5. The more upscale they make it, the more they will compete with "sporty coupes" and they will lose quickly if that is their approach. And if they go in that direction, I'm not sure any aftermarket turbos will fit unless they go with hood bulges like the Corvette.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Subaru has pictures of the "platform", and it sure doesn't look like the toolkit approach. 4 wheel drive is built into the platform and is not an option. That alone makes it inappropriate for the Twins. My guess is that they will keep the current Twins platform and work on making it look more modern and be an inch or two lower. That is the only plan that makes any sense for a low production vehicle selling at a reasonable price. They will also probably use lighter weight materials. Their only real competition in the states is the MX-5. The more upscale they make it, the more they will compete with "sporty coupes" and they will lose quickly if that is their approach. And if they go in that direction, I'm not sure any aftermarket turbos will fit unless they go with hood bulges like the Corvette.

That sentence should never ever be used when describing automotive manufacturing!


The platform is not restricted to AWD it isn't even restricted to gas powered engines. It is designed to do everything they need it to do. If it can be used for a compact hatchback it can be used for a RWD coupe. How is this concept so hard for people to grasp?


"Flexible — without all the flexing"

"The Subaru Global Platform is so named because it can be adapted to the requirements for everything from a compact hatchback to a 7-seater SUV. This level of flexibility has many benefits to the Subaru customer and to the environment. Existing Subaru factories around the world can be quickly turned over to produce different models according to what types of vehicles customers want and need. In addition, this revolutionary design can be modified to accept a variety of powertrains; ranging from our current gasoline SUBARU BOXER engines to future alternate powertrains down the road. The result: a truly flexible and environmentally friendly way to meet the needs of drivers for years to come."

[nikitopo]

It is like trying to fit everything in a single bag. Some will have to remember how the BRZ platform evoluted from the Impreza platform and achieved a better weight distribution and lower cog, because it had a specialized engine and the advantage of not using an AWD drivetrain:

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is like trying to fit everything in a single bag.

Think of it more as putting the same contents in a different bag(s).

The image a page ago is misleading and simplified.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Think of it more as putting the same contents in a different bag(s).

The image a page ago is misleading and simplified.

My point was that the BRZ doesn't fit very well with the global platform. It was more about specialization and not like taking an existing engine and changing a bit the design to be a coupe (i.e. just being shorter than the sedan wrx) and so on.

[HachiRokuX]

Originally Posted by ERA

I actually want this. Give the option for a good interior and more power from the factory.

Edit: Wait, I just described a Lexus RC..

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Think of it more as putting the same contents in a different bag(s).

The image a page ago is misleading and simplified.

More like putting similar contents in the same bag but that bag is made of stretchy material that can hold a single apple or a watermelon equally well.


Yes that image is very deceiving since it supports the myth that a "platform" means a prefabbed base that everything just bolts on top of.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

My point was that the BRZ doesn't fit very well with the global platform. It was more about specialization and not like taking an existing engine and changing a bit the design to be a coupe (i.e. just being shorter than the sedan wrx) and so on.

Yes I agree to a point. Subaru and Toyota's collaboration on this will also always be a hindrance to Subaru if they are trying to conform it to their global platform.

As long as the heritage of the car continues I will be happy. I don't foresee selling mine anyway even for a significantly updated version.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Yes I agree to a point. Subaru and Toyota's collaboration on this will also always be a hindrance to Subaru if they are trying to conform it to their global platform.

As long as the heritage of the car continues I will be happy. I don't foresee selling mine anyway even for a significantly updated version.

Yes. The only reason that the whole Global Platform discussion came up was the people speculating that Toyota would drop the model and Subaru would carry on alone. If that happens than any resulting car would probably be a BRZ in name only. As long as Toyota keeps their finger in it then massive changes are not as likely.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The platform is not restricted to AWD it isn't even restricted to gas powered engines. It is designed to do everything they need it to do. If it can be used for a compact hatchback it can be used for a RWD coupe. How is this concept so hard for people to grasp?


"Flexible — without all the flexing"

"The Subaru Global Platform is so named because it can be adapted to the requirements for everything from a compact hatchback to a 7-seater SUV. This level of flexibility has many benefits to the Subaru customer and to the environment. Existing Subaru factories around the world can be quickly turned over to produce different models according to what types of vehicles customers want and need. In addition, this revolutionary design can be modified to accept a variety of powertrains; ranging from our current gasoline SUBARU BOXER engines to future alternate powertrains down the road. The result: a truly flexible and environmentally friendly way to meet the needs of drivers for years to come."

Actually, it is restricted to 4 wheel drive according to the Subaru specification. You should read more carefully. In addition, they have pictures of the basic platform and you'll see that it is "hard coded" into a 4WD format. Take a look at the frame structure and mounting points.

That said, the BRZ is a joint project with Toyota and I doubt if Toyota would approve of the inherent weaknesses of the global platform for a sports car. The proportions of the global platform are all wrong for a car as low as the BRZ. If you don't have any engineering experience, have an engineer look at the picture and then tell me how they could possibly get a RWD only low car out of that platform.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes that image is very deceiving since it supports the myth that a "platform" means a prefabbed base that everything just bolts on top of.

Looking at the picture of the "myth" that Subaru presents, they are talking primarily about a base that everything bolts onto. You're right, theoretically it could be a "myth", but in this case it is not. Now you will obviously have additional commonalities among the models, but Subaru has already confirmed their platform and showed pictures of it.

[krayzie]

Thanks to VW and the handful of car part suppliers now every car manufacturer's marketing dept will have to sell a "global platform" regardless of what it is in reality.

If Subaru goes it alone they should do a 3rd gen Alcyone instead of a BRZ successor.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Looking at the picture of the "myth" that Subaru presents, they are talking primarily about a base that everything bolts onto. You're right, theoretically it could be a "myth", but in this case it is not. Now you will obviously have additional commonalities among the models, but Subaru has already confirmed their platform and showed pictures of it.

This is not a 1966 Chevy frame that they bolted different bodies on. The pictures shown are the basis of each not the end all and be all "platform" for all the models. You are still fixated on the thought that the "platform" means a single chassis. That is not what it means.