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Engine Swaps Discussion of engine swaps.


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Old 04-04-2021, 08:47 PM   #1
IIDutch
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4A-GE 20v Blacktop

Searching up this swap only brings up a photoshopped image and youtube videos of AC mods. Anyone know if its been attempted or of someone who has pursued it further than just an idea? (Whether that was completed or scrapped, would be interesting to see complications they ran into or their documentation on it)

Why? Because its interesting. The 5th gen blacktop 20v has a long lineage of motorsport use, and a favourite in AE86 applications. It may not be the most economical (in terms of comparing it to other options for availability and performance to the dollar), or powerful option which is probably the main reason it seems to be skipped over a lot. But a 4AGE that revs to 10k rpm with ITB's in an 86 would be a great homage to the AE86 and Toyota Motorsport history.

Have read up on a few beams swaps, which is a great option to keep the Toyota philosophy behind a lightweight chassis with a NA 4 cylinder in a FR configuration. But the 4AGE 20v is a lot more interesting to me and swaps are not all that complicated when you can fab mounts, do your own wiring, and run a standalone to avoid mating ECU's. Just interested to see others experiences with this swap if I decide to go forward with it in the future. It's good to see the journey of others to influence yours and helps you think of any changes or adaptations you may not consider otherwise.
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Old 04-04-2021, 09:10 PM   #2
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I don't know anyone who has done it but I know there is a shop in Michigan doing 2AZ-FE swaps

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Old 04-04-2021, 11:28 PM   #3
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I don't know anyone who has done it but I know there is a shop in Michigan doing 2AZ-FE swaps
Saw his thread on here and some of his youtube videos as well. Definitely a cool swap, and is the most modern toyota 4 cylinder that would work in a FR configuration. Can't argue against the new technology that helps those engines make so much power per cylinder and keeping the weight down with an aluminum block.

Engine sits really high though which he attributes to using modified 2jz mounts and the stock transmission. Different engine mounts, subframe adjustments, and adjusting the trans mounts could probably tuck it under the stock hood. Just speculating though, would be interesting to hear what @srscion thinks about how much room there is
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Old 04-04-2021, 11:31 PM   #4
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Saw his thread on here and some of his youtube videos as well. Definitely a cool swap, and is the most modern toyota 4 cylinder that would work in a FR configuration. Can't argue against the new technology that helps those engines make so much power per cylinder and keeping the weight down with an aluminum block.



Engine sits really high though which he attributes to using modified 2jz mounts and the stock transmission. Different engine mounts, subframe adjustments, and adjusting the trans mounts could probably tuck it under the stock hood. Just speculating though, would be interesting to hear what @srscion thinks about how much room there is
The Honda K fits with no cutting so I think it could probably be done. But if it requires a custom oil pan that might be an issue. I know they were going for a low cost swap option. And oil pans are expensive

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Old 04-04-2021, 11:37 PM   #5
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most modern toyota 4 cylinder that would work in a FR configuration.
Well I forgot about the AR engine series when I wrote that, afaik the AR series which replaced the AZ is the most recent 4 cylinder Toyota uses in a rwd configuration. If I'm wrong about that someone please chime in
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Old 04-04-2021, 11:45 PM   #6
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The Honda K fits with no cutting so I think it could probably be done. But if it requires a custom oil pan that might be an issue. I know they were going for a low cost swap option. And oil pans are expensive
Good point, could be done just a matter of how many parts you're willing to fabricate. K24 seems to be close to an inch shorter than the 2az (some say its 26" some 25.5" versus the 26.8" of the 2az). But even that extra inch or so can be hidden by cutting the supports of the oem hood while retaining the exterior skin
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:52 PM   #7
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The black top 20v is a great engine that stock will have less power than an fa20 and without FI will always have less torque. If you were to mod it to rev and make NA power you would want a much lower final drive to compensate. And after all of that you probably would make less wheel horse power than a full bolt on FA20 on E85. It would be a lot of money and effort to go backwards in power and drivability. It would make a nice sound tho.
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:28 AM   #8
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There is a reason Tsuchiya replaced his 4AGE with a 7AGE.
Personally I'd go 3SGE/BEAMS for N/A or a 3SGTE for boost.

Ultimately, I wanna do a high comp 1uz.
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Old 04-06-2021, 12:08 PM   #9
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My 4age blacktop with cams and exhaust made somewhere around 140 whp back in my ae86. In a car that weighs a lot less I guess thats fine, but it would be a pretty noticeable loss of power in a newer 86.
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Old 04-06-2021, 01:41 PM   #10
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The black top 20v is a great engine that stock will have less power than an fa20 and without FI will always have less torque. If you were to mod it to rev and make NA power you would want a much lower final drive to compensate. And after all of that you probably would make less wheel horse power than a full bolt on FA20 on E85. It would be a lot of money and effort to go backwards in power and drivability. It would make a nice sound tho.
Pretty much this.

Too expensive and far less power. 10K RPM requires a lot of expensive parts. I like Initial D too, but come on.
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