pass referee in cali for loud exhaust...

[kch]

Originally Posted by Jaden

A cop can't pull you over for no reason and can't search your car because he feels like it.

Jaden

i mean in theory you may be right, buuuut....

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by Toyarzee

So let's say you're driving to the track on the streets to avoid towing. The car usually gets no attention and everything is as hidden as can be to maintain the sleeper status... however, it's still loud and slammed so you KNOW it's modded.

A cop hypothetically pulls you over, while not committing any traffic violations, and says your car has no front plate, is too low, and is pretty loud. Pop the hood.

You know the giant precision turbo, methanol lines, custom shiny intake manifold, and 3" turbo back with only a muffler and turn down before the axle will not go well. You were not accused of or pulled over because you were speeding, driving unsafe, or exhibiting anything specifically done to the car, so you want to say no thanks to the officer making the request.

What happens next...? Pray to Jesus? Just flat out say I appreciate the concern officer, but I would like to respectfully decline as that is not necessary? Or say sure why not, pretend to be dumb and see what he says?

I'm only seeing a greater fluctuation in responses as I suppose was expected.

A cop can pull you over if you are or "look" modded, its the cop's judgement. Also according to what I've read, you are obliged to obey the officer if he asks to pop the hood. Because apparently its an "inspection" and not a search. You don't have to consent to a search but apparently you have no say in a vehicle inspection.

Check this ridiculous thread out...

http://forums.officer.com/t73003/

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

A cop can pull you over if you are or "look" modded, its the cop's judgement. Also according to what I've read, you are obliged to obey the officer if he asks to pop the hood. Because apparently its an "inspection" and not a search. You don't have to consent to a search but apparently you have no say in a vehicle inspection.

Check this ridiculous thread out...

http://forums.officer.com/t73003/

If that was the case, they wouldn't ASK YOU to pop the hood. It's the same thing, they'll ask you if they can search your car. It is your right to decline to give them consent to search.

This will likely end up going to the supreme court as well as the cases of right to search.

That is a semantic distinction, it is still searching the car and as has been stated, you have the fifth amendment right not to incriminate yourself and the fourth amendment right to be secure in your person and effects. Your car has already been ruled by the supreme court to be considered effects.

Jaden

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by Jaden

If that was the case, they wouldn't ASK YOU to pop the hood. It's the same thing, they'll ask you if they can search your car. It is your right to decline to give them consent to search.

This will likely end up going to the supreme court as well as the cases of right to search.

That is a semantic distinction, it is still searching the car and as has been stated, you have the fifth amendment right not to incriminate yourself and the fourth amendment right to be secure in your person and effects. Your car has already been ruled by the supreme court to be considered effects.

Jaden

I'm not disagreeing with you but according to officers, it's seen differently.

"First off, your 4th Amendment rights are not in question here. When a cop looks under your hood, it's an inspection....not a search. Since it's not a search, a warrant is a moot point. That's how you have diesel inspection stations. If you fail to comply with the inspection, you can be arrested and go to jail. Your car then goes to car jail".

Regardless its probably better to comply with the officer, I haven't seen anyone try to say no to vehicle inspection. It would be an interesting experiment, if you have the balls go for it lol.

If you take a look at that thread I posted, those are officers posting that crap.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

I'm not disagreeing with you but according to officers, it's seen differently.

"First off, your 4th Amendment rights are not in question here. When a cop looks under your hood, it's an inspection....not a search. Since it's not a search, a warrant is a moot point. That's how you have diesel inspection stations. If you fail to comply with the inspection, you can be arrested and go to jail. Your car then goes to car jail".

Regardless its probably better to comply with the officer, I haven't seen anyone try to say no to vehicle inspection. It would be an interesting experiment, if you have the balls go for it lol.

If you take a look at that thread I posted, those are officers posting that crap.

As I've stated, I take my liberty VERY seriously. I will refuse if asked and if they arrest me, I'll sue everyone and appeal all the way to the supreme court if necessary.

Jaden

p.s. and I don't do illegal mods to my car, it's not about that. It's about the continuous usurpation of authority that they don't have.

[Toyarzee]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

A cop can pull you over if you are or "look" modded, its the cop's judgement. Also according to what I've read, you are obliged to obey the officer if he asks to pop the hood. Because apparently its an "inspection" and not a search. You don't have to consent to a search but apparently you have no say in a vehicle inspection.

Check this ridiculous thread out...

http://forums.officer.com/t73003/

Holy hell, rediculous indeed!

"Just as an FYI I profile your POS rice rocket and YES I would have you pop the hood. It is not a search in MD to have you pop the hood. I am allowed by MD law once I have my PC for a stop to conduct a FULL vehicle inspection on the side of the road to include driving it for a breif distance if I so choose to. However thats a bit much. Poping the hood looking for the turbo or the NOS tubes is plenty enough for me.*

If you refuse? Then you get to go to jail for failure to obay a lawful order and I yank you through the vent window, you go to jail, and I impound your car......after I inspect it."

A stock evo... and he's told by cops if you don't like it, sell your car. Wtf? They can't say give me your keys I wanna take it for a spin.. at that point I for sure would fail to comply.

[Toyarzee]

Another assumption of police officers according to that forum is apparently that, the ONLY reason someone modifies a car is to street race. Da fuk?

[8R6]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

A cop can pull you over if you are or "look" modded, its the cop's judgement. Also according to what I've read, you are obliged to obey the officer if he asks to pop the hood. Because apparently its an "inspection" and not a search. You don't have to consent to a search but apparently you have no say in a vehicle inspection.

Check this ridiculous thread out...

http://forums.officer.com/t73003/

to the officers in that thread's defense...the OP sounds like an immature idiot.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by 8R6

to the officers in that thread's defense...the OP sounds like an immature idiot.

He drives a stock car and is constantly being hassled. He has complied with their requests like so many others and is getting tired of constantly being hassled.

How does that make him an immature idiot??? Now mind you, I only read the op and the first couple of posts so he may become an idiot in later posts...

Jaden

[8R6]

Originally Posted by Jaden

He drives a stock car and is constantly being hassled. He has complied with their requests like so many others and is getting tired of constantly being hassled.

How does that make him an immature idiot??? Now mind you, I only read the op and the first couple of posts so he may become an idiot in later posts...

Jaden

hes "ok" in the first page, but by the second or third page, even i started getting annoyed at his lack of understanding the other side...

[Jaden]

2804. A member of the California Highway Patrol upon reasonable
belief that any vehicle is being operated in violation of any
provisions of this code or is in such unsafe condition as to endanger
any person, may require the driver of the vehicle to stop and submit
to an inspection of the vehicle, and its equipment, license plates,
and registration card.

2806. Any regularly employed and salaried police officer or deputy
sheriff, or any reserve police officer or reserve deputy sheriff
listed in Section 830.6 of the Penal Code, having reasonable cause to
believe that any vehicle or combination of vehicles is not equipped
as required by this code or is in any unsafe condition as to endanger
any person, may require the driver to stop and submit the vehicle or
combination of vehicles to an inspection and those tests as may be
appropriate to determine the safety to persons and compliance with
the code.

Yep, not at the whim of the officer... They need to have resaonable suspicion that the vehicle is not in compliance.

This should require NO ACTION on the part of the person being pulled over. If they have reasonable suspicion to conduct an inspection, they can conduct an inspection.

If they ask me to pop the hood, I would say "Officer, I do not consent to an inspection, if you have reasonable suspicion to believe that I am not in compliance, then you should not need my consent, but know that I will file a complaint after you find nothing not in compliance and may file a lawsuit against you, your department and the county or state as is applicable for which you will have to provide evidence for your reasonable suspicion per VC 2804 and 2806".

Jaden

p.s. The officers KNOW this. The officer that inspected my vehicle asked me to TURN my steering wheel to the other direction so that he could hear my exhaust when I turned the engine on. He knew he couldn't request that I turn my engine on and rev it for him because he had no reasonable suspicion. The only reason he could ask me to turn my wheels is that my tires were a little too worn on the inside because of camber so he had reasonable suspicion to inspect the tires. None of this changes the fact that it is ridiculous that an officer can arbitrarily decide to write you up for a violation that isn't a violation based on nothing but his whim and in the case of 27150A, as it stands that is exactly what happens.

p.p.s I can't even read any more in that thread, some of those officers attitudes is what gives police bad names. I mean one posted that an officer can't know that you don't have a weapon unless he pats you down...duh...he's not supposed to know whether you have a weapon and he's not supposed to search you unless he has reasonable suspicion that not only that you have a weapon, but that the having a weapon is in violation of law.

Even seeing a gun in your belt is not justification for a search as he has no reasonable suspicion that the possession of the gun is in violation of law. This is exactly what I'm talking about. So many people have consented to so many violations of their liberties that both citizens and officers don't know what is legitimate and not any more.

[Phantobe]

@Jaden

I think an aftermarket catback exhaust which most people run, is enough probable cause to have an officer want to pop your hood.

Sad to say street racing has ruined the scene & you can see from that thread how vain officers can be. They pretty much orient car modding with street racing, granted the thread is over 7 years old I doubt much has changed.

[kch]

Originally Posted by Jaden

If they ask me to pop the hood, I would say "Officer, I do not consent to an inspection, if you have reasonable suspicion to believe that I am not in compliance, then you should not need my consent, but know that I will file a complaint after you find nothing not in compliance and may file a lawsuit against you, your department and the county or state as is applicable for which you will have to provide evidence for your reasonable suspicion per VC 2804 and 2806".

Okay look, I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and I don't practice in your state, so this isn't legal advice.

It's great that you value your personal liberties so highly. I mean it. You seem passionate about it and I can tell you've done some research. However, you won't be successful suing the state/city/county every time you get pulled over and inspected. That's a bullshit suit. You know it, the cop knows it, the judge will know it. In fact, any attorney you approach for the suit will also know it and will turn you down.

The reality is this: the standard for when an officer can ask you to pop your hood is intentionally vague to give the police more leeway. "Reasonable suspicion" isn't some imaginary video game stat that increases +2 for each obvious mod, so that the officer can only inspect you when you get to +10. All a police officer needs is a plausible reason to think you're modded (and heck, he can even be flat-out wrong like with the Evo owner in the above linked thread). So basically, if you complain to the police department, all that will happen (if anything) is that the officer will say you looked non-stock and were driving aggressively or something. They can come up with a reason that meets the "reasonable suspicion" standard.

Also, when the officer "asks" you to pop your hood, it's not because they're trying to trick you into consenting to a search (at least in this case). It's because it's safer for them than pulling you out of the car and popping it themselves, or reaching into your car while you're still in it. That's seriously not safe.

Also note that I'm not saying this is right or appropriate. It's just the way things work at the moment.

[8R6]

Originally Posted by kch

Okay look, I'm a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and I don't practice in your state, so this isn't legal advice.

It's great that you value your personal liberties so highly. I mean it. You seem passionate about it and I can tell you've done some research. However, you won't be successful suing the state/city/county every time you get pulled over and inspected. That's a bullshit suit. You know it, the cop knows it, the judge will know it. In fact, any attorney you approach for the suit will also know it and will turn you down.

The reality is this: the standard for when an officer can ask you to pop your hood is intentionally vague to give the police more leeway. "Reasonable suspicion" isn't some imaginary video game stat that increases +2 for each obvious mod, so that the officer can only inspect you when you get to +10. All a police officer needs is a plausible reason to think you're modded (and heck, he can even be flat-out wrong like with the Evo owner in the above linked thread). So basically, if you complain to the police department, all that will happen (if anything) is that the officer will say you looked non-stock and were driving aggressively or something. They can come up with a reason that meets the "reasonable suspicion" standard.

Also, when the officer "asks" you to pop your hood, it's not because they're trying to trick you into consenting to a search (at least in this case). It's because it's safer for them than pulling you out of the car and popping it themselves, or reaching into your car while you're still in it. That's seriously not safe.

Also note that I'm not saying this is right or appropriate. It's just the way things work at the moment.

/thread