This is not a winter car! Fed up! May end up selling...

[wparsons]

^^ Do yourself a favour and actually read what most people are saying about the car in the snow. No one is claiming their driving ability gets them through 10" of snow, they're saying to not try driving through such deep snow in a car with so little ground clearance. That's common sense, not driving skill.

It's pretty ironic that you quoted Suberman saying it's been a long time since he's been stuck in any vehicle and commented about how it's only you two getting stuck, meanwhile I've actually posted about the only time I got stuck in mine and I'm somehow one of the "posers".

Originally Posted by Suberman

Just reporting facts. You are imposing your commentary. I don't think I ever described this car in those terms.

However, the "evil little car and the good little car" is an apt description of its behaviour on winter roads. It's been a loooong time since I got stuck in any vehicle.

You're kidding, right?

In one thread you call the rear suspension defective, unsafe, etc then you start a new thread claiming after more driving you find nothing wrong with the car at all.

[Dipstik-sportech]

@wparsons I guess it's an Alberta thing lol. I've never claimed to be the next Stig or anything you just need to use your head when driving. 10+" of snow + 4" ground clearance + rwd = stuck. My fwd delsol had the same clearance and the same tires and it got stuck just as often if not more so. You two seem to be the only ones having difficulties with the white stuff, hell @Brz41 is a girl and she has no issues lol

Sent from, The Frozen North

[Suberman]

Nothing to do with the depth of the snow. The problem is low grip. It's not the tires it's something to do with the set up of the car.

I don't know what the problem is, it isn't my driving ability.

I strongly suspect the Torsen bias ratio is too high for effective winter grip.

I know the suspension is defective for really fast driving but that isn't the problem in winter. It's straight line grip that is inadequate in winter. Since this problem is worst from a standing start it can't be geometry.

The tendency to oversteer is frankly ridiculous but reports are that better tires ameliorate this issue. I suspect this is caused in part by toe changes through suspension travel but, again, I do not know the reason this car is do ridiculously tail happy. I do know it's slower than it could be for this reason.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by Suberman

I do not know the reason this car is do ridiculously tail happy. I do know it's slower than it could be for this reason.

Get out your pitchforks and torches boys, this sounds like heresy!

[7thgear]

Suberman

from personal experience, all i can recomend for you is to put on narrow tires and reduce the inflation during really snowy days.

i'm convinced that your 225 tire at standard summer pressures is the reason you're it's so slippery.

if i was in your area i'd happily let you swap in my wheels just to prove it to you, but alas.

consider finding a fellow calgarite with an FRS on 205/55/16's? and dial the pressure to around 25, all nannies off, i guarantee you'll feel a difference.

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

i'm convinced that your 225 tire at standard summer pressures is the reason you're it's so slippery.

I'll second this opinion.

I'm a relatively old fart that learned to drive on big RWD GM boats, so I understand all about loose backends, and the FRS is a dream in the snow compared to those.

I've got 205/R16 Toyo's on mine and I have had no issues in the snow this year. This includes many trips down the side street to my house where the bottom of the car is leaving a nice flat trail in the snow.

Going up a snow covered icy embankment from a dead stop with trac on is simply a matter of having it in the right gear and keeping your foot on the gas until it pulls you out. It will be slow, but you will get out.

Relatively high snow banks left by the plow are handled by an appropriate amount of speed and confidence/hope that there is no ice in the bank.

[FiRStsc10n]

Originally Posted by jvincent

Relatively high snow banks left by the plow are handled by an appropriate amount of speed and confidence/hope that there is no ice in the bank.

Amen!!

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Nothing to do with the depth of the snow. The problem is low grip. It's not the tires it's something to do with the set up of the car.

This whole thread was started by someone that got stuck in deep snow, not having an issue with traction in slippery conditions...

Originally Posted by Suberman

I don't know what the problem is, it isn't my driving ability.

No comment

Originally Posted by Suberman

I strongly suspect the Torsen bias ratio is too high for effective winter grip.

The bias ratio only comes into play when there is a difference in grip or weight between the rear tires. If both are on equally slick (or sticky) surfaces and not under decently big cornering forces it's not even a factor.

Originally Posted by Suberman

I know the suspension is defective for really fast driving but that isn't the problem in winter. It's straight line grip that is inadequate in winter. Since this problem is worst from a standing start it can't be geometry.

The tendency to oversteer is frankly ridiculous but reports are that better tires ameliorate this issue. I suspect this is caused in part by toe changes through suspension travel but, again, I do not know the reason this car is do ridiculously tail happy. I do know it's slower than it could be for this reason.

The suspension is FAR from defective for fast driving. To be fast on a track a car NEEDS to rotate, and if anything these cars don't rotate enough off power. If you're talking about them over steering while on the gas, then that's an issue with rear tire grip and throttle management. My car with stock suspension and sticky tires is much harder than stock to get the back end out if driving properly, but if you're trying to hoon it it's still easy to kick the butt out. I can get mine sliding at half the speed I can take a corner at simply by getting on the gas hard before the apex, but if I drive properly (feed in power as you release steering angle) there's no sliding at all.

Yes, you can get them sliding easily, but you can do that with any RWD car. If you drive properly (ie not over powering the rear tires), then it is plenty quick around a track.

Power on over steer is caused by too much power too soon in a corner, not defective suspension.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Oh please don't get him started on oversteer in this thread too!! Lol

Sent from, The Frozen North

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Oh please don't get him started on oversteer in this thread too!! Lol

Sent from, The Frozen North

Too late.

Oversteer is slow.

Torsen differentials do not work the wparsons thinks they do.

Torsen differentials constantly shuffle torque across the differential according to any changes in relative grip left to right. When the torque bias ratio is exceeded the tire with insufficient grip starts spinning up. If the torque applied exceeds the grip available on both tires then both tires will spin up but the tire with less grip will spin up faster.

Tor(que) sen(sing) is the derivation of the trade name. Torque biasing is what they do. They are not limited slip devices. It amuses me that even so called expert auto journalists do not realize this about Torsen diffs.

Want a good demo? Try driving the latest Mustang GT, it does in the dry what our cars do on snow: squirms around slipping first left then right and back again. That's what a Torsen equipped car does when traction is nearly equal left to right.

This is why Torsen diffs are not preferred for high performance track driving. They work well in a street situation, mostly.

[Dipstik-sportech]

See what you did @wparsons

Sent from, The Frozen North

[ciro]

LOL this thread is funny! learn to drive and get better tires. I am not even going to argue about the Torsen diff and why it can be better then mechanical. Drive both and see what you like.

[D88]

Why even bother bitching about the car like this? Sell it and get something that better suits you. End of story.

[headlikeahole]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Too late.

Oversteer is slow.

No one is arguing that oversteer is fast... The argument is that no one cares but you.