Are we ever gonna know...with enough time to say No?

[Draco-REX]

Sigh.. Let's look at this pricing dilemma logically, shall we?

Subaru has stated the cars they expect people to cross-shop with the BRZ here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1330040073

So they MUST price the BRZ at a competitive level with these cars at similar option levels. Let's see what we can find out. I haven't done this yet, so I'm interested in what will come to light. Since the standard Nav will likely be a big comparison point for potential buyers, I'm going to equip the cars on the cheap side, but with Nav where possible.

• Honda Civic Si Coupe (22,205 base): 23,905 with Nav and summer tires.
• Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T (24,250 base): 28,750 with Nav and Premium featuers.
• Mazda MX-5 Miata Soft Top(23,470 base): 25,830 no Nav, but Keyless entry and other features.
• Mini Coupe Cooper S (25,300 base): 27,800 with Nav
• Volkswagen GTI (23,995 base): 27,845 with Nav

Let's work the numbers a bit here.

Base range: 22,205 - 25,300
Base average: 23,844

Equipped range: 23,905 - 28,750
Equipped average: 26,826

Now, average doesn't mean a whole lot, but we're starting to get some idea of where the price will fall. Additionally, Subaru wants the price to be "Surprisingly affordable". So it won't fall at the upper end of the ranges. They've also repeatedly said they want the BRZ to start at 25K. Looking at the rest of the Subaru line-up, the difference between Premium and Limited models is around 2K or less. So Subaru likely wants the Limited priced around 27K.

So at 25K it places the BRZ Premium below the average of it's competitors, and the limited at slightly above. But I can see the prices being nudged a bit higher. So while I believe we'll see high 25s for the Premium and high 27s for the Limited, I would not be surprised if it ends up being 26 and 28.

But in no way is the BRZ Premium going to hit 28K+.

[CoryUyede]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Sigh.. Let's look at this pricing dilemma logically, shall we?

Subaru has stated the cars they expect people to cross-shop with the BRZ here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1330040073

So they MUST price the BRZ at a competitive level with these cars at similar option levels. Let's see what we can find out. I haven't done this yet, so I'm interested in what will come to light. Since the standard Nav will likely be a big comparison point for potential buyers, I'm going to equip the cars on the cheap side, but with Nav where possible.

• Honda Civic Si Coupe (22,205 base): 23,905 with Nav and summer tires.
• Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T (24,250 base): 28,750 with Nav and Premium featuers.
• Mazda MX-5 Miata Soft Top(23,470 base): 25,830 no Nav, but Keyless entry and other features.
• Mini Coupe Cooper S (25,300 base): 27,800 with Nav
• Volkswagen GTI (23,995 base): 27,845 with Nav

Let's work the numbers a bit here.

Base range: 22,205 - 25,300
Base average: 23,844

Equipped range: 23,905 - 28,750
Equipped average: 26,826

Now, average doesn't mean a whole lot, but we're starting to get some idea of where the price will fall. Additionally, Subaru wants the price to be "Surprisingly affordable". So it won't fall at the upper end of the ranges. They've also repeatedly said they want the BRZ to start at 25K. Looking at the rest of the Subaru line-up, the difference between Premium and Limited models is around 2K or less. So Subaru likely wants the Limited priced around 27K.

So at 25K it places the BRZ Premium below the average of it's competitors, and the limited at slightly above. But I can see the prices being nudged a bit higher. So while I believe we'll see high 25s for the Premium and high 27s for the Limited, I would not be surprised if it ends up being 26 and 28.

But in no way is the BRZ Premium going to hit 28K+.

Rational and Logical, I like it

Let's be honest too, There's enough of us crazy enough about the car to pay a few thousand MORE than what SHOULD be charged for the first few shipments and/or first model year. However, 2 and 3 years down the road all us "enthusiasts" will have gotten ours and most of the BRZ/FR-S volume will start to go to the "average consumer". Let's face it, to the average consumer this car will have no Substance to justify a higher cost then the cars Draco listed. So for longevity, it will be priced fairly(hoping)...or they will Gouge a little NOW, and 2 or 3 years down the road, drop msrp, or just not follow inflation and keep the price the same till a refresh comes and re-evaluate then.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by Oriental Life

Only JDM had 86/BRZ priced. The rest of us - waiting.

Erm no... pretty much all of Europe have their prices now and I think Aus/NZ have theirs as well.

Originally Posted by CoryUyede

...Then im off to the back of the line with all of the Rational and Patient people...

Haha! At least you realise it is a 'problem' of your own making, which it seems like some people here don't.
It is a mass produced item that you can get at your price point at sometime in the future - the only question is what point in the future that will be :-)

[CoryUyede]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Haha! At least you realise it is a 'problem' of your own making, which it seems like some people here don't.
It is a mass produced item that you can get at your price point at sometime in the future - the only question is what point in the future that will be :-)

Haha, yes, knowing I'm my own worst enemy is half the battle. Despite me going crazy with car deposits, I Am fully prepared mentally to NOT get the car this year, it's not the end of the world. I've made too many QUICK decisions with car purchases in the past for a lifetime.

I'd also be lying to say i'm not chomping at the bit to see what the next wrx/sti will be. Subaru's hinting at some drastic plans for that line.

[brianbot5000]

Also (and I'm no automotive pricing expert), I don't think it would be beneficial to Subaru to price the car higher the first year, then drastically slash the price by $1-2k the next year once initial buzz has died down. The second year price slash would probably give consumers a negative perception of the car - people don't equate "premium, high quality" with "slashed prices", and Subaru wants to keep this car's reputation as being premium - one of the marques of the brand. But who knows - like all of you, I'm just guessing.

[tachi1247]

Originally Posted by Subaruwrxfan

Just to put the whole price fiasco with the BRZ into perspective, Ford just released the pricing on the 16th for the 2013 Shelby GT500. It's gonna be starting at $54,200. The car isn't scheduled to be released until the END of 2012. And they're already pricing it. This is standard for most car releases, creates a buzz. I'm really starting to get a bad feeling about the price of this car. Holding out this long to release price IS NOT normal. And honestly, I know the two cars are polar opposites, but 650 hp and 200 mph top speed for 54 grand is extremely impressive and hard to say no to. I'm glad my deposit is refundable. If Subaru tires to pull a fast one on us, I'm out.

Unlike the BRZ/FRS that car actually will be limited production. They will sell for $10k over sticker to start off and will probably still be selling for sticker long after. That car will never be sitting on a lot.

Even if BRZ pricing comes in higher than expected, you could still get 2 premiums for the MSRP price of that car. As was mentioned above, you are probably the only person trying to decide between the 2.

[86fanatic]

Toyota/Subaru are probably holding off on releasing price due to the uncertain Yen to dollar ratio. The Yen has had an extremely strong run against the dollar which makes importing cars from Japan relatively expensive. It's part of the reason for the GTR's almost 30 grand price increase over 4 years.

Lately the dollar has finally gained a bit in value back against the Yen, and so it might be possible for Toyota/Subaru to price the car even lower.

If they officially set and announced the price a few months ago it might have been set higher then it needed to be for them to make what they needed to make. I would just be patient.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

Toyota/Subaru are probably holding off on releasing price due to the uncertain Yen to dollar ratio. The Yen has had an extremely strong run against the dollar which makes importing cars from Japan relatively expensive. It's part of the reason for the GTR's almost 30 grand price increase over 4 years.

Lately the dollar has finally gained a bit in value back against the Yen, and so it might be possible for Toyota/Subaru to price the car even lower.

If they officially set and announced the price a few months ago it might have been set higher then it needed to be for them to make what they needed to make. I would just be patient.

I was also under the impression that the Yen and Dollar ratio strength is one of few main reasons why the price has not been released yet. The USDollar index has gone up..i believe we may be closing at 79-80 this month which is good news.

But this was one of the main reasons why the Scion IQ was also delayed quite a bit, because Toyota was waiting for the ratio to level out before locking in the export rates.

[Draco-REX]

I wonder if they are waiting on Aha pricing....

[86design]

im hoping for the pricing some time the end of this month :/

[Buggy51]

Well, those that have a refundable deposit should be able to say "Bah, screw you" if the price is well above what they wanted or after they sit in it.

Though I do wonder about the preorders... >_> IF everyone preordered at multiple dealerships, did Subaru actually account for that?

[Subaruwrxfan]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

I wonder if they are waiting on Aha pricing....

I don't think so, it is already in the new Impreza and Forester, correct?

As for the GT500, I think it'll be just about as limited as the BRZ, maybe even less so. I see GT500s all over the place here in Southwest Virginia and back home in Pittsburgh. Plus I have a friend that is friend's with a Ford dealership owner, so I'm confident I could get the car for MSRP. Unless I find the BRZ to be extremely underpowered I would prefer the BRZ for the price, because like what has been said before, I doubt the car will be priced beyond what I think it is worth...at least I hope so. Plus I've never owned a rear wheel drive car before, so I'd rather start with a 200 hp car than with a 650 hp car, haha.

[Draco-REX]

"Pre-Orders" are dealership-level only. Subaru has no structure in place for pre-orders, only sold-orders. Any "pre-order" made previous to 3/1/12 needs to become a Sold-Order or Subaru will have no record of it.

Once the Sold-Orders are processed, it's been said by multiple contacts that if multiple orders arrive with the same buyer info, extras are automatically cancelled. So if someone has done that, they need to visit all of the dealerships they placed an order at to verufy that the order wasn't thrown out. And if it was, to get a refund of their deposit.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Subaruwrxfan

I don't think so, it is already in the new Impreza and Forester, correct?

As for the GT500, I think it'll be just about as limited as the BRZ, maybe even less so. I see GT500s all over the place here in Southwest Virginia and back home in Pittsburgh. Plus I have a friend that is friend's with a Ford dealership owner, so I'm confident I could get the car for MSRP. Unless I find the BRZ to be extremely underpowered I would prefer the BRZ for the price, because like what has been said before, I doubt the car will be priced beyond what I think it is worth...at least I hope so. Plus I've never owned a rear wheel drive car before, so I'd rather start with a 200 hp car than with a 650 hp car, haha.

The new Impreza has the same head-unit, but I don't believe Aha is released yet. That will probably be deployed as a dealership upgrade by flashing the headunit with the new firmware.

A wild thought appears! I wonder if the Impreza wheel with controls is a direct swap with the BRZ wheel.....

As for the GT500, that's a very, very different car than the BRZ. I'm surprised you're cross-shopping the two. The BRZ's power, despite the low numerical rating, is perfectly fine. But what you compare it to can change whether you find it too little or not.

On on-ramps, it should feel as quick as my spec.B. And in the past I've driven really low hp cars. So I'm going to be very happy with the power level. But if I were to drive the BRZ expecting it to compete with my STI, I'd be very disappointed.

So think about your expectations and what you should be comparing it to.