E85 USERS!!! Please read, interesting stuff!

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by s2d4

@Visconti
Feel free to answer this question.

he can't...obviously...

[Subzero]

FYI--BG44k is E85 alcohol compatible. I've used it in E85. Works fine.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

If I were you I'd be concerned too...it takes a real tuner to make it work...

Sounds like a science project.. whos doing the tuning for you lol

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

Did my Master's degree on flex fuel control systems. Sorry fellows... it's pretty unlikely that there's a conspiracy afoot.

Between 1990-1993, most companies were already developing systems that were safe to run ethanol. By the OBDII refresh (MY1996), most manufacturers had already spec'ed the tanks, lines, filters, injectors to withstand ethanol. Some manufacturers designed for slow wear (just enough to support E10), but most chose materials that did not (in any reasonable time period) degrade in E100.

The fueling control systems were still archaic, since closed-loop fueling was just reaching the stage of using HEGO switching to keep the catalyst cycling (oxidation and reduction at ~1 Hz). These type of systems would fall back to fail-safe maps and waste a ton of fuel. I was reading about Subaru strategies a few years ago, and they use Map "A" and "B" which could be switched between based on feedback about current and expected performance (generally centered around knock and exhaust temps). Regardless, the systems were capable of storing and flowing E85 for the entirity of the car's life. Ethanol eats alot of modern materials... but they currently use materials that dissolve VERY slowly (if at all).

Not totally surprised but interesting topic to do your masters on

Very cool

[wgnzlz]

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

Did my Master's degree on flex fuel control systems. Sorry fellows... it's pretty unlikely that there's a conspiracy afoot.

Between 1990-1993, most companies were already developing systems that were safe to run ethanol. By the OBDII refresh (MY1996), most manufacturers had already spec'ed the tanks, lines, filters, injectors to withstand ethanol. Some manufacturers designed for slow wear (just enough to support E10), but most chose materials that did not (in any reasonable time period) degrade in E100.

The fueling control systems were still archaic, since closed-loop fueling was just reaching the stage of using HEGO switching to keep the catalyst cycling (oxidation and reduction at ~1 Hz). These type of systems would fall back to fail-safe maps and waste a ton of fuel. Around MY2000, most manufacturers moved to UEGO based systems which allowed you to generate adaptive A/F ratio targets. It took a few years for these to get implemented, but most had multiple maps pre-programmed. I was reading about Subaru strategies a few years ago, and they use Map "A" and "B" which could be switched between based on feedback about current and expected performance (generally centered around knock and exhaust temps). Regardless, the systems were capable of storing and flowing E85 for the entirity of the car's life. Ethanol eats alot of modern materials... but they currently use materials that dissolve VERY slowly (if at all).

Very interesting. Thanks for the post.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

Did my Master's degree on flex fuel control systems. Sorry fellows... it's pretty unlikely that there's a conspiracy afoot.

Thanks for the history of controls systems/strategies used for parts that are specified to work up to E10.

Did you do accelerated lab tests on the frs/BRZ filter? Did you analyse the composition of the materials? How was the experiments structured?

For the guys who have used the thanks button on that post, does Control systems engineering = Chemical Engineering?

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Sounds like a science project.. whos doing the tuning for you lol

As you already know, Mitch Pederson Of MPTuning does all of my tuning,

Car has been running E-85 since last august or september...or do you not remember the mods having to clean up the AEM threadafter you got done attempting to thread shit where you were in over your head?

That thread is still sitting waiting for your wonderful input on the insurmountable issues we are (supposed to be) having...

[Sportsguy83]

Thread turned for the worse.

Locked.