Subaru BRZ Prototype Review by Car and Driver. Calls it a Knockout.

[lancie]

s2000 weight 1275kg x 240cv.....

[czar07]

Originally Posted by coyote

The block is from Subaru's new engine range, already going into production Imprezas and Foresters.

I'm pretty confident after sorting any minor clearance issues, my built Subaru engine will just drop straight in, my Subaru wheels will just bolt straight on and my Subaru number plates won't look out of place even if I have to buy this Subaru from a Toyota dealership (I'd actually quite like that).

You can get annoyed by that, join the club and learn about Subaru engineering or buy another bag of zip ties for your old Soarer.

“No,no, no – it is a completely new engine. The engine is still a boxer. The technology, even the engine block are completely new. Everything is new. The only thing that remained are the mounting points.” Tetsuya Tada, cheif engineer

at least my soarer will last 20 more years.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I agree with you but what about the LOTUS ELISE/EXIGE???????? Why didn't Lotus go to Subaru and borrow one of their engines instead for optimal handling? This is a company whose focus is handling over power.

Lotus already has a R-MR configuration and the engine is situated low anyway in the car itself.. You are comparing apples to melons there.
Perhaps the flat4 was too wide??

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Lotus already has a R-MR configuration and the engine is situated low anyway in the car itself.. You are comparing apples to melons there.
Perhaps the flat4 was too wide??

That's my point!!!

They didn't need a boxer engine to obtain a low CoG just clever engineering. I was responding to the guys who said that a boxer engine is the best way to do it yet we have other automakers that get it done without boxer engines even in FMR configuration. Am I really that hard to understand or are you guys not reading my posts correctly? It's like I'm repeating myself over and over again.

[Matador]

You just seem a little thick, that's all.

[70NYD]

Lotus is not a high production company but. They do not have the means to go and make their own engine or heavily modify existing ones. Like I said, perhaps they needed more room for the suspension linkage attachment points etc, something that a wide boxer engine would not be able to fit in to.
I FULLY understand your point, there is NO be all and end all answer for a "perfect" car design. Everything and anything can be made good in its own way, we're on the same page there, I'm just playing devils advocate
In hindsight, and this isnt directed st you SUB, people are being too, what's the word, crazy, NO, needy. You CAN'T have a CHEAP, RELIABLE, LIGHT, FAST, WELL BALANCED, WELL DESIGNED and GOOD LOOKING car that is to EVERYBODYS taste.
Oh I'm not gonna buy it if it weighs/costs/has this much power. Then don't.. Who the hell cares? You think Toyota cares? They have a design and they has market research and they have already made their target figures.
Want it lighter? Strip some shit out
Want it faster? Get a different engine/FI/lighter
Want it to look better? Get a paint job/fully sick chromies/body kit/cannon muffler(this one was be cus I think the car looks good)
Want it cheaper? Go get something else..
Be happy that you have such a great car on offer.. Remember that this car has to pass STRINGENT crash/impact/emissions regulations to even be released.. This isn't 1990 any more. You can compare cars today with stuff that was released then.
/rant

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

You just seem a little thick, that's all.

Well I guess we have that in common.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Lotus is not a high production company but. They do not have the means to go and make their own engine or heavily modify existing ones. Like I said, perhaps they needed more room for the suspension linkage attachment points etc, something that a wide boxer engine would not be able to fit in to.
I FULLY understand your point, there is NO be all and end all answer for a "perfect" car design. Everything and anything can be made good in its own way, we're on the same page there, I'm just playing devils advocate
In hindsight, and this isnt directed st you SUB, people are being too, what's the word, crazy, NO, needy. You CAN'T have a CHEAP, RELIABLE, LIGHT, FAST, WELL BALANCED, WELL DESIGNED and GOOD LOOKING car that is to EVERYBODYS taste.
Oh I'm not gonna buy it if it weighs/costs/has this much power. Then don't.. Who the hell cares? You think Toyota cares? They have a design and they has market research and they have already made their target figures.
Want it lighter? Strip some shit out
Want it faster? Get a different engine/FI/lighter
Want it to look better? Get a paint job/fully sick chromies/body kit/cannon muffler(this one was be cus I think the car looks good)
Want it cheaper? Go get something else..
Be happy that you have such a great car on offer.. Remember that this car has to pass STRINGENT crash/impact/emissions regulations to even be released.. This isn't 1990 any more. You can compare cars today with stuff that was released then.
/rant

I totally agree with your post. You can't have it all for a cheap price.

[czar07]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Lotus is not a high production company but. They do not have the means to go and make their own engine or heavily modify existing ones. Like I said, perhaps they needed more room for the suspension linkage attachment points etc, something that a wide boxer engine would not be able to fit in to.
I FULLY understand your point, there is NO be all and end all answer for a "perfect" car design. Everything and anything can be made good in its own way, we're on the same page there, I'm just playing devils advocate
In hindsight, and this isnt directed st you SUB, people are being too, what's the word, crazy, NO, needy. You CAN'T have a CHEAP, RELIABLE, LIGHT, FAST, WELL BALANCED, WELL DESIGNED and GOOD LOOKING car that is to EVERYBODYS taste.
Oh I'm not gonna buy it if it weighs/costs/has this much power. Then don't.. Who the hell cares? You think Toyota cares? They have a design and they has market research and they have already made their target figures.
Want it lighter? Strip some shit out
Want it faster? Get a different engine/FI/lighter
Want it to look better? Get a paint job/fully sick chromies/body kit/cannon muffler(this one was be cus I think the car looks good)
Want it cheaper? Go get something else..
Be happy that you have such a great car on offer.. Remember that this car has to pass STRINGENT crash/impact/emissions regulations to even be released.. This isn't 1990 any more. You can compare cars today with stuff that was released then.
/rant

^^ This. agreed on every point

[SUB-FT86]

70NYD said it best. If you want a really fast ft then you're going to have to pay at least 10k more. Upgraded engine,sport package and some extra features like HIDS will cost an extra 10k. I think 32k is cheap for a true Sti or TRD version if it comes with the stuff I mentioned.

[dmon]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't know about you, but a BMW 1 Series costs 28.000 € without any powerful engine an without equipment. A VW Golf VI is just a piece of sh** if talking about handling.
Kerb Weight of the FT-86/BRZ is under 1200 kg / 2600 lbs. Dry Weight is around 1000 kg. EU under 1250 kg.

You probably missed what FT-86 is about. It's about beeing stripped...no equipment (no CD player - only IPOD/USB connector...).
So if you buy a BMW with no equipment, you basically get the same deal as FT-86.
The new BMW series 1 5 door with 120d engine (diesel with 184HP, 7.2 to 100km/h, 228km/h max speed, and mixed consumption with 4.5l/100km) is 28.200 EUR.

So you get only basic equipment in both cars, both are RWD, BMW has about 16HP less, but is more comfy and it gets a huge consumption benefit. And in Europe you buy domestic products if the price is the same (not true to me - I drive a Honda...but for most people it is).

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Oh I'm not gonna buy it if it weighs/costs/has this much power. Then don't.. Who the hell cares? You think Toyota cares? They have a design and they has market research and they have already made their target figures.

I'd like to see the market research that turned out a 2800lb, $28,000 "entry level" car. Toyota should care about people buying cars, that's how they make money...

Want it cheaper? Go get something else..

I will! Thanks for the advice.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I agree with you but what about the LOTUS ELISE/EXIGE???????? Why didn't Lotus go to Subaru and borrow one of their engines instead for optimal handling? This is a company whose focus is handling over power.

Because the Series 1 Elise used a Rover K series engine (because it was lightweight, British and already designed). The Series 2 Elise was an small evolution of the Series 1 - a chassis tweaked to meet updated EU crash test regs, a new ECU and some restyling. The problem was that a few years after the update Lotus decided that they wanted to export the Elise to the US. The Rover K series engine wasn't even remotely emissions legal in the US, so it had to be ditched before Lotus could try selling the Elise for street use. Lotus picked the 2ZZ because it had an excellent power to weight ratio, weighed about the same as the Rover engine and fit in the existing chassis (and I'm sure Toyota gave them a sweetheart deal). They could have used any engine they wanted (see the Hennessey Venom GT as an example) the Elise chassis is modular like that, but a flat four would have required a complete redesign of the rear subframe/suspension (a big investment, for very little reward).

[Buggy51]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I totally agree with your post. You can't have it all for a cheap price.

However, the car was designed around the idea of affordability as well, no?

28k is technically beyond the range that most people would consider affordable